this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2025
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Yeah but as someone from southern new england I can assure you the irish immigrants still aren't accepted there totally either. Day to day interactions no one targets you for being Irish descent but structurally being Irish American is considered to be barely white, more like poor white which is barely white among elite circles (ughh Boston is full of the descendents of the original immigrant european religious fanatics and it shows sometimes).
Doesn't make any of this right but notice the way oppression must metabolize and neutralize solidarity in a fractal process of targetting vulnerable groups along whatever axis they are exploitable along. Irish Americans must be both the oppressed and the oppressor for the system to work, and it is the same thing just more dogpiled the further you go down the ladder of real privilege.
There was no damn potato famine, there was just England prototyping modern colonialism and capitalism on Ireland.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but interested in more info. What practical ways does this manifest for these folks? Are they subject to additional law enforcement scrutiny, denied job opportunities, or historically discriminated against in mortgage lending? Or are there other ways I'm not thinking of?
I mean, the thing with Irish Americans is that they have been shit on for most of their experience in the US but then in the last 40 years or so ceremonially brought into the "white" club, but this club has no real rules other than it only temporarily brings minorities in, however the club wants to define minorities.
You won't see structural discrimination against Irish Americans as easily perhaps as other more obvious examples of US racism but it is there, mostly in terms of classism. Irish Americans are the stupid hardworking drunks you do all the manual labor and leave the WASPs to run everything.
Things are changing, but I think to begin a conversation about why Irish Americans can have such disappointing politics compared to Irish people proper you have to understand the way the white elite in the U.S. has been playing poor-person-in-the-middle with groups like the Irish for decades.
I read a story in the paper about a middle-class white family that knew a big storm was coming and got out, and didn't bother to warn their neighbors, poor whites living in a trailer park, who all died. And I was like, yeah that tracks.
I've lived in tornado alley for much of my life. During tornado season everyone watches the weather, and has a plan on what they are going to do. I would find it VERY strange if my neighbor suddenly started banging on my door telling me a storm was coming. I would absolutely already know from the same sources they know. Most of us are hyperaware of our dangerous weather. I imagine that point is the same for those that live in hurricane areas.
Because you said the "got out" then it sounds like it was a hurricane. If a tornado is closing in, the worst thing you could do would be try and "get out". So what's even more confusing if this was a hurricane, those have days worth of notice. Everyone in that trailer park would have known a hurricane was coming days before and could either choose to leave, go to a hurricane shelter, or decide to stay put. The reality is that trailers are the worst form of protection during bad weather, tornadoes or hurricanes.
What exact action you would expect from the middle-class family that wouldn't make them racist/elitists from you post? Physically knocking on doors of dozens of trailers saying "a storm is coming" days before they leave?
I’ve been surprised by hurricanes before, it’s not impossible that it goes from a category 3 to a hurricane in the span of twelve hours to a day, and it’s relatively easy not to see news about it. I’m not in Florida, so it could be different there, but I’ve never heard of a hurricane siren, for example.
Cat 3 is already a hurricane isn't it? Cat 1 is too. Below that would be "Tropical Storm" and below that "Tropical Depression", right?
But you knew about the Cat 3. Would you still have expected the middle class guy from the house down the street to come and knock on your door (and that of dozens of your neighbors in trailers) telling them that the Cat 3 had upgraded to something worse while he's trying to drive his family out of town?
My one experience with hurricane evacuation was when I was visiting Florida. Notices of danger are literally all over the place. Businesses close, grocery stores empty out, and THE TRAFFIC! Something like 12 hours before the expected arrival the government even authorizes all interstate highways to be unidirectional. What this means is that both sides of the highway are traffic flow away from the storm. Yes, half the drivers are driving "the wrong direction" down at highway speeds away from the storm. It was kind of fun actually legally driving the wrong way down an Exit ramp onto the highway going the wrong direction. Fun fact I never knew, there are a whole bunch of "WRONG WAY" signs on the back of the regular interstate highway signs. We never see them because we're going the right way. Also, the road reflectors in the separating the lanes are ALL RED. Again, you only see them if you're driving the "wrong" direction, which we legally could during the evacuation.
Yeah, I brain farted. I meant category three to category five. Category three is not really a concern where I grew up (~50 miles inland), but category five will fuck things up. Because of that, news coverage and radio interruptions and the similar tend to set in around category 4.
I guess I found out about most hurricanes from talking to other people because it becomes a topic of small talk, so maybe that’s coloring my perspective. I would expect people to talk to their neighbors about it, if they suspect that their house will be swept away, if only to check what their plans/forwarding address will be.
And deny you the chance to make the joke? I'm not heartless.
I am not the first person to point this out and I won't be the last.. but this is really the only way the system can work. If people aren't turned against each other in this multi-dimensional shit show of empathy strangling twists of stereotypes and lived experiences than it will inveitably collapse into a giant "Why the fuck are we doing this?" and people will stand up together and put a stop to it.
It is NECESSARY for the middle-class white family to leave abruptly without telling their poor neighbors in order to rationalize the hate the middle-class white person has for poor whites (I wouldn't do this awful of a thing unless I was right because I AM a good person) and vice versa to rationalize the hate the poor white person has for middle-class white people or black people or whatever.. all that matters is an unaddressed trauma is created and then denied any resolution for the victims. Rinse Repeat.
Personally I think a better alternative would be free quality healthcare for everybody but what the hell do I know shrugs