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I never understood US schools "logic" when it comes to deal with violence.
Yeses, she should not have hit that asshole, but they should expell him, and maybe give her a day or two of detention.
The same level of logic where the bully is somehow not at fault for when the bullied finally stands up to them.
Not that I'd know from personal experience or anything growing up from how many times it was somehow my fault for retaliating.
As someone bullied a lot what I learned from them always punishing retaliation but not the action was to wait a day, be sneaky about it, then unleash all hell like youd never get another chance. If they're gonna punish me for being in the right Im gonna earn it, so I went big. They never found the rock that was in my hand though so I guess it worked out.
Congratulations on your new flair!
Jeez Ender Wiggin
Dont get mad at him for doing it better.
I'm missing something. Are you suggesting that by retaliating outside the moment - attacking outta nowhere the next day - you were somehow punished differently? Perhaps less so?
What often happens in these cases, you'll see, is that nothing is every done about the issue until the victim fights back. Then they usually both get punished equally.
The initial bullying is often completely ignored.
Teachers tend to treat one sided aggression (ie bullying) as an annoyance they must deal with, often daily, so it's brushed off as par for the course. Once two parties are swinging it's a fight, and since they're already used to excusing bullying, it must be the retaliator who was wrong.
"it takes two to tango" that is, there'd not be a fight if the victim didn't resist. Therefore both parties are at fault /s
yuuuup "Why'd you hit back? Now I can't ignore it!"
I also think teachers get used to bullies because they act out so frequently and just accept their behavior as default, so they subconsciously think yeah that kid is supposed to hit other kids, but it was weird the quiet one flipped out all of a sudden (flipped out meaning acted exactly like the kid they ignore does all the time)
Now, I was lucky in high school. I was one of the "good kids" with impeccable grades and a quiet demeanor, so when I shoved a kid down the stairs for pinching my butt, no one saw anything. (LPT: don't pinch someone's butt as they are going up the stairs. They have the high ground and might be startled. I'm still pissed at that kid. He was fine, we were only a few steps up.)
I don't think it's really the teachers that brush it off. Most teachers do actually care. It's the administration that doesn't have their backs.
Teachers definitely brush it off. I've seen it with my own eyes. I was the victim, all the fucking time. I still remember elementary school in Philly, I was the only Asian kid in the class. Holy fucking shit, the bully always had co-conspirstors testifying against me, defending their mini-"gang leader" and nothing is ever done.
Those classes where there were a few ABCs ("American Born Chinese"), they would never defend me, not physically, nor even just verbally telling the bully to fuck off, I was just fucking alone.
nope you got it.
Punishing the victims should they dare to not stay quite is an honored tradition in schools and one that isn'tl limited to the US at all.
Rest of the world: Want to know why US schools have so many shootings? It's not just the availability of weapons (though that's the #1 factor).
Kids are taught from an early age that justice of any kind for their abusers inside school is never going to happen. Any action they take will likely result in expulsion—just like this girl—even for defending themselves.
With the microcosm of a social space that is school, what conclusion do you think kids will come to if they want justice? They don't see any bigger picture than the tiny little place on Earth they've been legally obligated to be inside of until they turn 18.
And this situation is a stronger reason.
The girl has gone through every reasonable and righteous option she could of.
And the authority of all of those matters - failed her. So what was she left with? Punching the abuser. Now they're all like "WHUH?! OH MY GOD! U CAN'T DO THAAAAAAAT!!" despite them practically IGNORING what was happening. What did they honestly expect? For her to own it?
She should get a high five instead of detention.
That is my opinion, too.
0 tolerance = 0 thought
It’s punching people is bad mkay. No thinking about why they got punched. Just punch = suspension.
Yep. It is a very limited world view to only count physical brutality for these kinds of judgements.
This has always been my contention with this policy. It's one thing to prohibit physical violence. It's another thing entirely to create an environment where everyone escalates to verbal abuse (bullying) and other forms of assault, yet have no 'zero tolerance' policy for those things.
Basically, it's whoever creates a problem for the school. Bullying doesn't make waves or headlines. Physically assaulting people does. Therefore, bullies don't get punished, only people who hit back.
Seems to me a kid who's essentially created child porn and distributed it at school would be a huge potential problem for the school.
Right, potential problem. So they try to bury it to avoid it becoming an actual problem. The kid fighting back makes it an actual problem, so she gets suspended.
It's a fucked up logic, but that's their reasoning.
Yeah, when I was a kid if a girl sent a naked photo to a boy and he distributed it, they could both get busted for CP, usually the boy would face a harsher punishment for distribution and the girl could negotiate something else. This image was created totally without the girl's consent or knowledge, so the boy is the only one at fault
Although, once alerted and not helping her, the school is at fault as well. And perhaps the individuals, such as the principal.
The logic is "precarity". Everything can arbitrarily be taken away from you by a capricious system.
America is a shithole country.
I was a kid who got picked on and his ass beat a lot in the aftermath of Columbine. And I can speak from experience that basically every single guidance counselor and teacher's marching orders were that I was much more terrifying and dangerous than the kids who cracked my ribs multiple times.
Part of it is that the culture of "boys will be boys" is still incredibly prevalent and transcends politics. Hell, look at how many "leftists" are glad to ignore platner being a nazi who worked for blackwater and blames the victims of sexual assault for being around soldiers?
But an ex who actually is a teacher explained this to me one night. A lot of the logic is that the bully is a lost cause who is probably going to suffer a LOT more if their parents have to come into school to talk to the principal about what their kid was doing. And... they are probably lost causes that schools just don't have the resources to help. Whereas the kid getting bullied? They have a chance. So the kid who pantsed them in the cafeteria gets a slap on the wrist whereas they get a week of in school suspension for breaking that kid's nose.
And then you combine that with standardized testing and funding and No Child Left Behind and the idea of expelling the young psychopaths only to get them back in a year because the "bad kid school" is full... yeah.
And I can see the same cold logic here. There is nothing the school can do about her being violated like this and the reality is that basically every girl in school is probably dealing with the same problems (they just might not know it). And there is nothing the school can do about the sick bastards who are doing this. But what they can do is say they have "zero tolerance" in the hopes of keeping everything from boiling over and just kind of hope she gets past her trauma somewhere else.
Ain't the world massively fucked?
I get it, but why punish the bullied person then? Let them off the hook as well. That doesn't follow any logic.
Aside on the Platner thing, I don't like the guy because he gives off some weird vibes. But I don't think he's a Nazi. He's been pretty honest about his past, and I think we should learn to let people grow.