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66% of Germans oppose benefits for Ukrainian refugees (www.pravda.com.ua)
submitted 3 weeks ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/europe@feddit.org
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[–] gigachad@piefed.social 96 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Let's add some context and some numbers!

Ukrainians are entitled to "BΓΌrgergeld", the social security system for Germans. This means Ukrainians get a benefit, no other refugee gets. If you come from Afghanistan or Syria, you will get less money than Ukrainians. This includes payments for being single parent or pregnant. You get immediate health insurance and you are immediately entitled to look out for a job [1].

The amount of Ukrainian refugees currently working is about 300,000[2], this number has doubled since the beginning of the Russian invasion. The number of total Ukrainians is not clear, but it is about 1,100,000 [3]

We need to exclude children, disabled people etc., fortunately this article itself gives numbers:

701,000 Ukrainians were entitled to social assistance paid to jobseekers and low-income individuals. [...] Of these, 502,000 were able-bodied citizens aged 15-66.

Which means roughly 60% of Ukrainian refugees are working. Source [2] lists 211k unemployed, 98k doing integration courses, 29k doing work related language courses, 21k are doing some programs with the employment offices (usually this is sitting in front of a PC and learning MS Word).

Can we conclude Ukrainians are lazy? Absolutely not. Ukrainians are very likely to integrate into the job market. Personally I guess this has mainly to do with not fleeing because of economic reasons but war and to a lesser extent cultural reasons.

Are Germans right with being against supporting Ukrainians with social benefits? Well, that is not easy to answer. But keep in mind, Ukrainians have a special status among all refugee groups that enables them receiving much more support than a "regular refugee". This is kind of good will Germans proved especially in the beginning of the invasion, where military support was not nearly as strong as now.
The financial situation of Germans is difficult, as it is almost everywhere else. Every euro paid from the social security system is paid by someones taxes. Taxes and health costs etc. are at an all time high of roughly ~~50~~% 42% of your wage.

Lastly, a lot of Germans wonder what young men in the age of 20 or 30 are doing in Germany, why are they not fighting in Ukraine? If you ask me personally, I can absolutely understand not wanting to die for your country. But I guess it is a fair question.

I hope I could give you some context that helps you sort this out. Like always, it is a bit complicated. Slava Ukraini.

[1] https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/ukrainer-nrw-buergergeld-arbeit-100.html (20.06.2024)

[2] https://www.arbeitsagentur.de/presse/2025-07-knapp-300000-menschen-aus-der-ukraine-gehen-in-deutschland-einer-arbeit-nach (19.02.2025)

[3] https://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlagen/DE/Forschung/Kurzanalysen/kurzanalyse4-2025-ibs-bevoelkerungsstruktur-ukr-gefluechtete.html (07.05.2025)

[–] yobasari@feddit.org 43 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Some additional context. The survey was done by "Insa" for Bild Zeitung. "Insa" has repeatedly been criticized for their survey methods and has connections to the afd. The Bild Zeitung ist also a low quality right wing news paper. I don't know why DW even reports on stuff Bild Zeitung writes. They are supposed to be reliable. Reading the posted article you would think DW would have done the survey but they only report on the article that was written by Bild Zeitung. And weirdly the article only appears in the russian edition of dw. Not in the German one. Lastly the question was asked very weirdly. They asked "should all Ukrainian refugees receive social assistance?" The answer to this would obviously be no for many people as many ukrainian refugees don't need social assistance if they have a job or are personally wealthy. I can't really find the original survey. Just the Bild article on it. But I wouldn't but too much weight on it.

[–] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

The Bild Zeitung ist also a low quality right wing news paper.

Please don't call that propaganda rag a newspaper. It's not even good as toilet paper, because you arse would get dirtier from wiping it with that rag.

[–] Ooops@feddit.org 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

They don't even call themselves a newspaper because then they would probably be liable for lacking even minimal journalistic standards...

[–] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 weeks ago

First time i heard that insa is tied to the nazis

[–] Havatra@lemmy.zip 21 points 3 weeks ago

[Meta] This is a great high-quality comment with proper references! I personally really appreciate the effort of elaborating on media articles that are often sensationalist or clickbaity. Keep up the good work!

[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.org 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

roughly 50% of your wage

can we lay this myth to rest? I keep hearing the 50% number from expats / tourists / international friends and it's simply not correct. For the vast majority of people its 42% or less.

E: sorry for the kneejerk reaction, I also wanted to say: fantastic coment overall. I'd add the current political climate and generally stronger right wing/conservative leaning of the general population.

[–] gigachad@piefed.social 11 points 3 weeks ago

Thanks for the correction, I edited my comment. No need to apologize, I can see this is frustrating.

[–] verdi@feddit.org 6 points 3 weeks ago

Username checks out with the quality of comments.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 27 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

66% of us are twats.

I really would like to know how many of those wanting to send Ukrainian men back home have preemptively refused military service. And further how many know that there is effectively no such thing in Ukraine.

[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

To be fair, a lot of people reject military service, unless their country is attacked. Opinions tend to shift at that point.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

In Germany a draft is only possible in case of a defensive war.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That can't be true. People were drafted all the time without a war. The new law is also about drafting people if there are not enough volunteers.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Art. 12a makes a distincten between mandatory military (or civil) service and an actual draft during wartime (Paragraph 3).

We might be arguing semantics here but to me military service has always been the temporary training and draft the "we give you a rifle and send you to fight" thing.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I don't see that in paragraph 3. It says men to whom military or civil service can't be applied can still be forced to do civil work. That should apply to all remaining unfit men who were excluded from service.

So there doesn't seem to be a distinction between draft and mandantory service.

What's interesting is that the new volunteers become time limited soldiers and not just men doing military service. The limits to defence don't apply to them.

[–] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Peace time Conscription in Germany is only halted, not abolished.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 weeks ago

66% of people answering a poll by INSA, who have some serious AFD connections

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 24 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Please read gigachad's comment before you pass judgement.

IMHO the headline should read "66% of Germans oppose Ukrainians getting more benefits than other refugees"

Additionally, the survey was made for a famously right-wing populist outlet so I'm not sure how the numbers stand up to scrutiny (yobasari's comment).

[–] Nanook@lemmy.zip 20 points 3 weeks ago

66% of a specific audience to get a desired result.