Ask Lemmy

I keep in mind that observation bias is a thing and I can't remember the people around me who are constantly following it.

Many years ago I was walking out of Port Authority and a women, clearly mentally ill, ran up to me and wacked me in the back. There is zero doubt that I have passed well over 10k people in that area in my life. I only remember 1 of them because of what she did 1 time to me.

Despair? Not really. Though before COVID, people seemed generally okay, if annoying to be around. Now we just know they're assholes. But I more shrug my shoulders at it as opposed to 'despair' over it.

I think in the US at least, people increasingly have accepted the notion that it's everyone for themselves, and any sense of "us together" is absent. And when you look at our national values and what sort of policy actually gets discussed and passed, it can be difficult to disagree with that idea. We have millions of Republicans who would do anything for Trump, but won't do the most minor thing to help their fellow citizens for example. We have a government that helps businesses, but won't help regular people.

And this sort of mentality is widespread throughout society. It gives people the idea of "You don't care about me, so why should I care about you?" In a moral vacuum, maybe the effect wouldn't be so pronounced, but in reality, it becomes an engine of apathy which gradually consumes more and more of the social consciousness and destroys the threads which hold that social contract together.

Yep constantly! perfect example yesterday. Was waiting in line for ice cream. Some young girls ahead of me in line were talking amongst themselves. Worker tries to ask them what they want twice. The girls were completely oblivious to her or seemingly to the fact they were in line. I felt this worker's pain but supported her reaction of rolling her eyes and then quickly proceeding to the next customer.

We obviously all have lapses in awareness but yeah it does sort of feel like it's so common it's endemic and maybe on the rise. Living in a touristy area accounts for some of it but even in the off season it's crazy common here.

Idk, at least locally i feel like the regard for the social contract has only grown with time, sure there's the odd teenager who doesn't realize headphones exist but they're stupid teenagers and everyone hates them.

It's definitely not a new phenomenon, but exacerbated by the media and COVID-19 just seemed to bring out the very worst in the worst people. Witnessed selfish brats in society my whole life, and I wish I could say it's improved but it hasn't. People forget we live in a society and should work together.

I'm visiting Niagara Falls, which is a tourist area obviously, and you can tell who the Americans are because they're happy to shove you out of the way to get a better look. Also, last night, an already loud motorcycle was driving down the road with its music blasting so loud, I thought I was in the Hard Rock Cafe down the street. Of course, American plate.

I'm despair at the lack of regard for the social contract for my own people in specific. I go out of my way to not annoy people.

I recognize what you're saying. I've accepted it to some degree but I don't like it. I think it also comes down to different views, morals and values. It's easy to look at a person that misbehaves according to your own values and feel disappointed by them. One thing to remember is that they have their own views about what's right and wrong and your own views aren't necessarily the right ones.

I feel the same way about "acting professional".

It's definitely gotten worse due to the dispersion of our social groups.

It used to be that we would interact with the same people for a large chunk of our lives. The guy you shoulder checked on the path was your dad's coworker etc. The social contract was a lot more reciprocal.

Now, we bounce around the city/country/world, almost on a whim. This breaks alot of the connections that reinforced the social contract.

In scientific terms, the Nash equilibrium has changed. The social contract is close to a classic prisoner dilemma situation. It used to be iterative, and so favour a "tit for tat" response. It is now closer to multiple random individual interactions. This favours "defection" more, since the other person will never get a chance to respond.

My biggest aggravation are people who cut into entry lanes whilst in traffic just to get maybe ten cars ahead because their time is soooo much more important than anyone else's.

I had a much longer list of other things that I had typed out, but I cut it out. I don't want to be putting more negative out into the world than needed.

So yes, despair is constant, seeing people have so little regard for their fellow human beings. We're all sharing this world, we're all trying to exist. Though that's not to say it's all bad, there's a lot of very selfless things people do every day too. It's easier to see the negatives, but there's definitely good out there too.

I feel like I run into microcosms of this in a few online games.

Worlds like Sea of Thieves, The Division's dark zone, and Stalcraft, are built with the idea that "anything goes" - players exist in the same world, with no rule to prevent them killing each other to steal their possessions - and even some decent rewards for doing so.

I actually mostly enjoy playing those games for all the times people don't do those things. I don't despair the moments that betrayal does end up happening - mostly, I just find it wonderous and satisfying anytime we manage to dismiss that possibility and treat each other peacefully.

This could be a poor effort to correlate my interests, but one thing I think affects this issue in places like America is cars. You don't see 20 people out on the street. You see 20 cars on the street. Tinted windows, faceless metal grill. A lot of people have been burned by one poor experience with neighbors taking sidewalks or transit, and so they want to stay isolated in their own protected cabins.

I think the world really relies on chance interactions between strangers, for both parties to learn something about each other and the world - often leading people to "care more" and develop more of that social contract. The trick is, most people DO follow a social contract, but it might only be for the individuals they're familiar with and that they feel similar to. The internet has unfortunately had its ill effects too - people can choose to stay in spheres where people specifically agree with their worldview, and won't ever run into "randomized neighbors" the same way as they would walking down the street.

I doubt that's a new thing honestly. I've always been encountering people who think only of themselves.

But also, a part of this social contract should be things like "nobody's perfect" and "everyone makes mistakes". That goes with your part together too, sometimes we don't think something through and may come ofd as selfish or ignorant. But that's also normal if it just happens randomly sometimes and it's not too much of a pattern.

I think these days we tend to demand perfection too much, and write someone off way too quickly.

The reason we are seeing a version of Idiocracy in action is due partly to us no longer being able to keep up with the excess of information and partly to mindless inhibition of education.

First, there is a lot of information to cram into the heads of children and there needs to be a reform and streamlining of education in general, if we are to keep up with our status of development. Unfortunately our civilization as a whole has reached a centurial gap between its forefront and its general body. Most of our capitals, which are supposed to be shining beacons of our achievements, are instead living museums of our evolution. The outer husks are nothing more than tribal huts made of mud, barely rediscovering the wheel and fire.

Second, cuts are being made heavily and exhaustingly poor in the department of education on a global scale more or less, and the focus on forefront performance causes everything else to degrade rapidly. Whether cultural, religious, economical or plain idiotic, restrictions are being added one after the other and create a vacuum that simply disrupt the well being of our society.

Education needs to be comprehensive in order to be effective in every facet available. Ours currently isn't.

Can't say for sure if there's an increase in this behavior or I'm just getting cranky with old age. Personally, I try to focus on the 999 people NOT being a rude douche

Yes, but from a slightly different viewpoint. Namely, people are so disenfranchised from their society on average that the idea of a social "contract" makes no sense. People are not at all represented by "their" governments, and in their righteous anger they conflate the oppression by governments with that of their people.

If you put on a crown and shout that you're better than me, I'm not going to respect your authority by default. You need to give a reason to do so, such as protections, rights, privileges, opportunities, camaraderie, etc.—or the implied or explicit threat of violence against those who disobey the law, as is the current setup. Right now, the only thing that my government does for me is wage wars in foreign lands, building ill will and corpse piles on my behalf. For many people, their government harasses them or just wants them straight-up dead.

I think that many people confuse the ill-will of governments with the avarice of their ordinary citizens [1]. It is, at best, tied to the apathy of their citizens, whom have themselves been relentlessly beaten into understandable submission.

The point I'm making is this: if people are already out to destroy you, what good is the social contract to you? Fuck them. This is the attitude that drives people not to care for others.

Now this lack of care for others is not my viewpoint! I do separate the actions of the state from the people they "represent" as much as is possible [2]. However, I'm in a position of relative comfort and privilege. I have the energy to take a fraction of a second and cool off when I start to see myself blaming humanity for things. Most people don't.

Lastly, in regards to situational awareness and common courtesy specifically...I really had to learn that, and I'm not the only one. "Do unto others as you would want done unto you" doesn't really work for me because I generally want different things than others. I have difficulties reading social cues. Even as an adult, I have to go far beyond "Do unto others..." to suss out what the right course of action is, because I typically would want something else or nothing to happen. Situational awareness and common courtesy are not inherently obvious or intuitive, and I think we do a disservice to ourselves by pretending that we don't generally learn courtesy from others.

[1] In areas where street justice is a thing, it is not at all uncommon for the public to side with non-state bullies in conducting oppression, although usually still with tacit state support.

[2] Patriots and ultranationalists do exist unfortunately. Non-state ultranationalists need to be taken to task along with their state-sponsored brethren.

I was on the subway, standing, recently when an elderly man got on board. I'd guess he was in his 70s. Had a crutch under his arm. Had one or a few small bruises on his face. He looked frail. No one with a seat made any effort to offer him their seat. He stayed right near the doorway of the subway, and I thought "oh, maybe he's just going one stop." He wasn't. He just didn't expect anyone to vacate a seat for him.

I remember the subway before personal music players, and now 'smartphones' were ubiquitous. From what I can see, common courtesy has fallen sharply with the rise of 'smartphones' (and the concomitant "I'm walking around completely oblivious to my surroundings and focused on what's on the 4 inch screen 4 inches from my face")