When mine gets really bad, it’ll feel like a slow buildup of tension that is quickly released without my control. Almost like an attack. In the past, it’s actually felt like a shock as well.

But it sounds like NT people I’ve talked with don’t see it like that 🤔 and frankly neither does the internet at large 🥴

I notice this with a lot of autistic people, including myself.

There’s two “accents,” actually.

One of them is kind of growly, for lack of a better term; like how it sounds when you tense up your lips/when you talk while trying not to move them, if that makes any sense. This could just be sampling error, but this seems to be more of a thing with people who are AFAB.

The other (which, funny enough, seems to skew more towards AMAB people, myself among them, though notice I said seems to skew more towards, so it’s not a 1:1 thing) is almost like a faint British accent. Like you’re a fancy English barrister who lectures at Oxford and you’re learning to talk like a normal person.

Does this make any fucking sense?

Could it have to do with how “well-adjusted” someone is? Like as you’re forced to mask/learn how to pretend to be normal, the awkward British professor thing fades; the growl (which I think I sorta have too, maybe) is a substrate that’s left behind.

Let me know right away if this is complete nonsense so I can be embarrassed and delete it as soon as possible.

WHERE TO GET THE BOOK: http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=F6B31A8DAFD6BD39A5986833E66293E6

Audiobook format (expires 1/27): https://litter.catbox.moe/l3298q.m4b

So, this post will be "Introduction" in the sense that it will introduce us all to the book club and the book, and we will also be covering the introduction. The emotional content is pretty heavy; as such I figured it deserved its own discussion. It's not especially long, but it covers Dr. Price's journey into accepting his autism, and if you're on the spectrum or even just neurodivergent in general you'll probably strongly relate to a lot of what he lays down here. You, like me, may read this chapter and find yourself thinking he's literally me, he just like me, he just like me fr ong no cap

Dr. Price is a transgender social psychologist born in Ohio, who graduated from Loyola University Chicago where he teaches as a professor in continuing studies. He wrote and published Laziness Does Not Exist before this one, and it's also worth a read. In this book, Dr. Price also discusses his gender identity and how there's a very high incidence of gender non-conformity amongst neurodiverse people. So in addition to folks with ADHD and autism, or those with other neurodiversities, it can also benefit LGBT+ folks who have to cover up their true selves for safety or social acceptance.

I plan on making another post about chapter one on Sunday or Monday of next week, depending on whether I can make time, and then one post about each chapter every week or every other week depending on what people's feedback is.

In the intro, Dr. Price discusses his personal and emotional problems, social isolation, autistic self-discovery and research, entry into the autism self-advocacy community, and official diagnosis. He discusses how people who don't fit the stereotype of autism are often neglected by medical professionals. How this neglect harms neurodiverse people of all stripes, and how unmasking can be a key to a full, authentic life. (Here's hoping.)

He describes unmasking as a frightning and, indeed, potentially dangerous prospect, but provides tools throughout for approaching the process and beginning to know yourself, find where the mask ends and you begin, and believe that the person underneath is worth knowing in the first place.

First, discussion questions:

• What interested you in this book club?
• Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?
• What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

He ends with an exercise called the Values-Based Integration Process, which we'll go over below.

VALUES-BASED INTEGRATION PROCESS (by Heather R Morgan) STEP ONE

"Think of five moments in your life where you felt like you were FULLY ALIVE. Try to find moments throughout your life (childhood, adolescence, adulthood, school, work, vacation, hobbies)

Some of the moments might leave you with a sense of awe and wonder -- 'Wow, if all of life was like that, it would be amazing!'

Some of the moments might leave you feeling deeply recharged and ready to face the next challenge, or satisfied and fulfilled."

The books says to write it down in as much detail as possible, but I don't actually expect anyone to post all that stuff here. Just a personal exercise to get the juices flowing. I'll post some of my own personal thoughts in a comment below.

CARCOSA@hexbear.net , I was asked to tag you for a sticky on this. I think a few mods are in my tag list as well if you can't get to it.

The following folks asked to be tagged:

• ReadFanon@hexbear.net
• Othello@hexbear.net
• Wertheimer@hexbear.net
• roux@hexbear.net
• voight@hexbear.net
• LarsAdultsen@hexbear.net
• BreadMaster5000@hexbear.net
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• Pluto@hexbear.net
• PointAndClique@hexbear.net
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• optissima@lemmy.ml
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• AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml

If we are in queue and you are breathing down my neck and every time I take step forward, you take a step again right behind me, I will put my bag / basket / parcel whatever on the floor in front of your feet and edge away to a comfortable distance.

So I go to a work party, and honestly I don't know anyone that well, I work from home mostly, but I come in to show my face and do all the niceties. Talk about some shit, mostly work (not work work but like work, you know?) and then the conversation kind of fizzles out (related point: why the fuck do people sometimes ask me something and then WALK AWAY TO TALK TO SOMEONE ELSE a few seconds into my answer?).

I don't think I'm BAD at speaking to people. I'm sure as shit better at it than they are, why can't THEY think of something to say? Annoying.

Also whenever someone says hi to me I kind of don't know how to treat them but it's because I can't REMEMBER. I have introduced myself to SOoooo many people who then are like yeah yeah we've met actually I planned your wedding and I'm like what the fuuuuuuuck you DID? Not doing that shit again, you guys reveal yourself first, do YOU remember ME? You do? OK yes of course I know you too.

Tangent: I'm not even diagnosed with anything and of course I have it in my head that I don't look autistic, not like you guys that I clock from a mile away, though honestly I am not even sure about this. I kind of feel like everyone else can tell? As a kid I would fight with this girl who sat next to me and she would tell me I was speaking in a monotone, and I would be like what the fuck girl, I am talking so melodiously right now, what can't you hear?

Back to the point. You know what I do wanna do with people? Activities. Do something with me, anything at all so we don't have to small talk, and my personality will shine. I promise I'm cool, it's just you work colleagues all kinda suck. Actually, clubs suck. I make all MY friends outside smoking cigarettes. If you want me, I'll be outside with the cool people.

Is anybody interested in an Audible gift?

FourteenEyes@hexbear.net and a few others have been talking about reading this as a group, so I grabbed the ebook - ReadFanon@hexbear.net linked it in PDF & epub here - but wanted the audio version for sharing with my husband.

When I got it for him, I saw we have a few extra credits on the account, and it looks like I can use them to purchase titles to send as gifts. I thought some of you might like to have it? You'll have to DM me the email address associated with your account, but you'll get mine in return.

I cant be the only one. It makes me feel cozy.

This is somewhat inspired by the Chuggaconroy - Lady Emily situation and specifically this possible explanation for it that someone brought up, but its not really about that (but if you want to discuss this specific instance, feel free, im looking for some moral clarity on if anyway). Its a thought ive been having for a literal decade

I think nd advocacy and feminism do not intersect cleanly. I dont want to get into details, but i have been in the position of harassing someone without realizing i was doing that multiple times in my life. I think autistic men do often fuck up socially with women in a way that is recieved as harassment.

And i do think the autistic man is still acountable for that and needs to learn better in the future.

But i also wonder a lot about how to best deal with the intersection.

There are other issues as well. Like making the world more accessible and safe for people with Rejection-Sensative Dysphoria, but also protecting a woman's (and people in general's) right to say "no". And connected to this, de-stigmatizing ND behaviors while protecting women's right to social autonomy and trust their "creep-dar". (Because i think sometimes ND behaviors can sometimes ping someones creep-dar even if the ND person means no harm at all, because lf the stigmatization).

Im also aware there is a body of writing by Autistic women feminists criticizing the behavior of many autistic men, but im not totally sure how to incorporate that.

idfk maybe it's autism, there are just too many signs - does anyone else feel like they're autistic when their high and now the mask has come off? doubt

anyway just travelling by myself for once so I'm vlogging and watching my shit back and I am NOT normal, there is no way other people talk to me and think damnnnnnn he's functional - when was someone gonna tell me I talk like I'm tongue tied, what the fuck??

besides, how can I be autistic if I bullied the autistic kids growing up (the only people who would hang out with me willingly)

I think there is a bit too much going on with me for it to just be anxiety... but pretty sure it is add, maybe combination add and autism

Everyone I tell who I think I have add is like noooo haha you're too cool and successful and I'm like ok, but everything is an uphill battle, and I need drugs to study?? pretty sure my mum has ADD too among other things...

ofc this could all be the long island ice tea talking, shit smashes

Have any of y’all ever had the experience where you once went on dates and felt something but now you can’t look at anyone in a romantic way? Is it just emotional unavailability or something similar?

It almost scares me because I can’t make sense of it and it makes me felt super left out. Godamn I’m so bad with describing feelings

Packing your liquids, there are never any bags, or any staff who might direct you to some, you have to take off your shoes for reasons apparently, and then the bathrooms. Piss everywhere, no locks on any doors, sinks full of snot from people blowing their nose, broken soap dispenser, and piddly little tap so short you have to touch the filthy bowl to get a dribble on yours hands. Then the self checkout starts SCREAMING at you, SCAN ITEM TO BEGIN TRANSACTION. Fuck you, leave me alone. Don't get me started on the crowding.

All of the above applies to every form of public transport.

Edit: I had forgotten that once you are on the plane they spend the first hour screaming at you with announcements at max volume.

Holy shit, comrades. I had no idea. This explains so fucking much. Thank you, thank you, thank you to the comrades like @ReadFanon@hexbear.net and @FourteenEyes@hexbear.net and others who have mentioned the book on this site.

There are some traits I don't share (are there any dealbreakers that would disqualify me as autistic?), but for the ones I do have, they fit exactly. Price, in the conclusion, talking about sleeping on an air mattress and refusing to buy furniture - that's been me. Same with all of the food issues they talk about. Same with . . . etc. Goddammit. How did I not know? Do I know now? What do I do now? I'm already on disability so I don't know that I need to go through the diagnosis process.

I have a couple of older relatives who only communicate via phone call and I hate talking on the phone. My other relatives don't stay in contact as often as I do, so I feel bad not reaching out and keeping them company.

Do you have any strategies to manage the energy drain from phone calls?

I have had visual snow for as long as I can remember, and mentioned it to friends a couple times growing up but otherwise never really thought about it that much. The first time I googled it like 15 years ago, it wasn't even a thing.

Let me first say that I recognize the fact that this sounds super privileged and I am speaking from my own experiences with the all of the tools I have at my disposal in mind.

I don’t have many real life friends, but when I do hang out with them, it seems like all of our conversations eventually come back to some societal critique (often at the most granular level). Sorta like never ending, conversations popular in academia without really understanding the minutia of said conversations. Comes off “pretentious” to a lot of people unfortunately :/ we all hate hate hate our 9-5s (like everyone I suppose) but I think I’m personally reaching a critical point where I’m starting to value something other than the salary. And the nail in the fucking coffin is that I think that this makes up the majority of my anxiety.

Lol my good friends and I will usually clear out a room by boring ostensibly neurotypical people with our very silly little conversations, but I feel like academia would be where the people who wouldn’t leave would congregate. And this probably sounds a little hyperbolic because we certainly talk about other shit too (lol we can’t not at times), but this is certainly our sports if we’re comparing popular topics of discussion

main

Trying to talk to people about anything at all is like pulling fucking teeth, I hate it so much and it has not once gotten better. I think that I have probably become worse at it ever since the discovery that I have autism revealed to me that there are many given layers of meaning & social cues that I am not understanding, in literally all conversations, but looking back it was never good anyway. I was never good. I can see all of the same problems of stumbling awkward bullshit even back when I was blissfully, properly unaware that I was doing SPEAKING TO PEOPLE wrong.

I'm just fucking exhausted and I don't want to do it anymore. Wherever I go, whoever the people from whatever walk of life, they're all unified (gloriously) by their "oh, ew, geez" -type reaction to my existing and subsequent ability to just barely tolerate me carrying on like a particularly annoying child. What good has being social ever once done for me? Nobody ever sticks around and it's clear they do not like me. If I do not initiate things with people 100% of the time, 24/7, and make myself 100% available to them at all times as well, they will not show any interest and will fuck off to go hang around with someone who's not totally insufferable.

I'm lucky enough to be married & I should have just accepted that as my one victory, quit while I was ahead. No point straining myself trying to talk to other people if I already have my life partner. Trying to get to know people, talking with them, has never represented anything but stress and pain, often in retrospect when I realise I was kept around solely for humour value or because people are too polite to just tell me to get bent. I have to get rid of my desire to talk to people, as well as talk in general, because it's absolutely disastrous for my life.

This post dedicated to marble countertop gang

Introduction
Kill the cop in your head! Seek to understand for yourself why you do what you do. Redefine what is necessary behavior. So with masking, I reflected and realized I did it to feel safe and acceptable in 4 spheres: 1) the occupational sphere, 2) the general public (i.e. the store, about town), 3) with friends, 4) with myself. After a lot of reflection and with support from my partner, I was able to realize that I was extending the constraints of the most limiting sphere (#1) to all of the others. That is to say, I was more regulated than necessary to meet my desire for safety. To be more straightforward, I was able to see I could still feel safe and accepted when I unmasked. For me, that was the precondition.

Why Unmask
Extended metaphors and schema work really well for me. So I need to explain mine to explain why I unmasked. Your language or conception might differ, but I think the motivation is generally applicable. Overall I view my energy as bandwidth that is allocated to different thought processes, stressors, and the like. Certain things passively consume bandwidth. For instance, I have a physical disability that occupies about 5% of my bandwidth at all times, and more when I am managing it poorly. Or when i have many upcoming obligations but no calendar, I use bandwidth trying to keep my schedule in mind. Bandwidth not used passively is what is available for productive work, hobbies, interests, spirituality, presence and immediacy, creativity. Too much passive use creates a stress response in my body—this also uses up bandwidth and is a positive feedback loop. Consequently, I seek to minimize my passive bandwidth usage.

And masking uses up a lot of passive bandwidth! I joke and call it 'my affect chip'. Like I have different voices and personas for different settings. Some of them are even fun to inhabit. However, I do not need to be using that bandwidth up all of the damn time, especially when I am alone, with lovers, with friends. Letting go of masking in certain spheres has made my life overall more manageable, more pleasant, and has allowed me to be more present. Like there is a positive feedback loop with my overwhelm response, there has been a positive feedback loop with unmasking. Since I have more energy with myself, I am more present with myself and better able to handle disruptions and challenges; i.e. I am more resillient. It also leads to cute moments like last night where I woke up to get some water, walked into my clean kitchen, got excited that it was finally clean, and didn't repress myself from stimming like I did as a child when I was excited! I noticed what I was doing and that I felt very little shame about it, and that made me feel even better.

How to Unmask/How I Unmasked

1. Determine why you mask, what need or desire is fulfilled by masking. For instance: safety (avoiding bullying), ability to meet expectations of employment context (still a safety need since capitalism necessitates work for survival), aesthetics, beauty standards, etc.
2. Determine if the same need is present in all spheres in which you mask. For instance: Work, General Public, Family, Political Org, Distant Friends/Group Settings, Close Friends, Intimates, Self.
3. Determine whether or what degree of masking is actually necessary to fulfill your needs. If you found multiple needs, especially if needs that necessitate masking are different between contexts, it is necessary to find the degree of masking you feel is necessary for each need-context pair.
4. Determine what your masking behaviors are. Determine what needs they address or may be intended to address. Note: this will probably occur organically throughout this whole reflection. This step may be placed prior to step 3, too, depending on what feels constructive.
5. Determine what masking behaviors are actually necessary in each context, and be liberated from the ones that are not. Most of the progress will come from this step, but the others are necessary for it to be effective.

Conclusion
Even if fully unmasking feels unsafe and unacceptable, we can normalize and embrace our beautiful selves for ourselves. Shame and guilt are the least useful feelings that exist. Thank them for pointing to an incorrect attitude or behavior and Let Them Go! Kill the cop in your head and liberate your mind!

hey there hexbear nd gang! it's that time of year for the first time ever!

here we are once again approaching the end of the year according to the roman imperial calendar that we all have to use for some reason. it's the winter holiday season in the global north, a time of great symbolic significance to many people.

and so, i want to solicit your thoughts about this community, what it means to you, how you'd like to see it evolve, changes in moderation policy, suggestions for thumbnail and banner images, or anything else related to the comm or neurodiversity in general.

or just come hang out!

i also want to invite applications for new moderators for this comm. what would you like to do as a moderator for c/neurodiversity?

personally i've largely been a placeholder, but i do love this community and i want to see it grow as a shared and safe space for our neurodivergent comrades to talk about ourselves and with each other. i also want to do better and want your input about what that means.

c/nd has a well behaved user base so we don't need extra mod help for enforcement or anything like that. what i'm mainly looking for is fresh perspectives on community engagement and growth.

there is absolutely no requirement to disclose any personal information about yourself, just to make that clear. but if you're interested in moderating this community, please contact @CARCOSA@hexbear.net, myself, and/or the other nd mods with an application.

if deadlines help motivate you, you have 3 days from the time you read this.

if deadlines harm your motivation, don't worry about it. if an application comes in a month or two from now of course we'll still consider it. this isn't a job, i'm just asking for volunteers to help moderate a small internet message board.

I think the importance of these meds is understated because stimulants have greatly reduced my anxiety and increased my overall quality of life. When I take them, shit just finally quiets down in my head and I can focus on what I need to do.

But a damn agency (formed because the government hates black and poor people) is keeping others from a marginally better life in a capitalist hellscape. Pure dystopian poetry. Couldn’t make this up if you tried

It’s super weird to think about now. But I remember that being me while growing up. No one really acknowledged the fact that those in my “group” were being separated from our friends.

It was super interesting though because there were always a few people from the other group that would crossover and make friends between groups. Those were the types of people everyone liked, but I’m seriously noticing this same pattern again and I fucking hate it.

It’s so so so fucked. That’s why I seldom go outside (lmao and almost typed this out in response to the copypasta post before realizing it was a copypasta)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room

It's a pretty cool thought experiment about a hypothetical person locked in a room. In the room they have books on Chinese words, phrases, and grammar. They receive a sheet of paper with Chinese written on it and send out a written response using the books as reference. The person inside the room doesn't know what they're writing and the outside person doesn't know that they don't understand Chinese.

It really speaks to me in how I navigate a lot of social connections without knowing why. I receive an input, and while I'm not sure why, I'm conditioned to respond in a specific way.

The thought experiment reminds me of masking and how it's hard to explain to someone you don't understand. Because of their perception of your actions/words, they assume you understand the fundamental idea.

When I keep up the mask, I know that it's easier to do things in certain ways and hide evidence of misunderstanding. I think that's where a level of isolation happens for me. It's like I'm locked in a room away from people and my communication is filtered through a system I don't understand at all.

I dunno, I was just thinking about thought experiments in general and how neurodiversity can show up.

Does anybody else have thoughts on the Chinese Room or other thought experiments in relation to a neurodiverse experience?