cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/40055131

OG title: We need to talk... about the Proton ecosystem

Ecosystem is a trap. It lures you in with the promise of convenience, only to lock you inside a walled garden. Like Google and Apple. They start with a good product, but then force you to use the whole suite to get the full experience. This is dangerous.

Ecosystems are concentrating all of your data and your digital life in the hands of a single entity. An entity that grows so large and powerful that it will start making compromises against your rights only to find more ways to profit or protect their business. The larger the ecosystem, the bigger data harvester it becomes. It becomes a bigger target for hackers and the more products it offers the more data it has to give to the surveillance state.

We know that the big tech does this, because their only moral value is the shareholder value. [4] But when a private company starts quacking like a duck in the steps of the big tech, it should worry us the same way. That company is Proton. The maker of the most renowned privacy products that have always been meant as ethical alternatives to the big tech.

Today, Proton resembles more and more the ecosystems of Google and Apple than it does its noble origins of fighting the big tech. This is a problem. It’s a problem for your privacy and it’s a problem for the whole community. But you probably never of heard of this perspective, because none of this is talked about enough. There is a reason for this.

You see, most content on Proton you’ll find, is coming from sources that are sponsored or affiliated with Proton. And I know how lucrative Proton’s deals are, because Proton even tried to pay me. Of course, I refused their offer, because taking their money would incentivize me not to recommend against Proton products. I am uniquely positioned to give you a nuanced critique of Proton and how to solve this problem.

Some good points to be said. I find the overall argument a bit weak as it is mainly one of user erorr of sorts. Btw THO has some pretty good back log of videos on privacy; check out their stuff on burners phones and anonymizing yourself at a protest.

After zooming in on an email I am unable to scroll left to right, trying to do so only takes me to the previous or next email. I can still scroll top to bottom.

cross-posted from: https://scribe.disroot.org/post/5840601

En un internet dominado por grandes tecnológicas donde los datos personales son una mercancía más con los que las empresas trafican para generar beneficios, y en un mundo donde los estados son cada vez más represivos para mantener el orden burgués, el cifrado de comunicaciones es algo vital.

from the team:

Hey everyone,

For all of those technical users who love scripting and automating tasks and need direct access to Proton Pass from the terminal, we’ve just released CLI support.

This is built as a fast, secure, and automation-friendly way to access and manage Proton Pass items directly from the terminal.

The feature is available in beta for paid Proton Visionary users, with broader general availability coming soon (Pass Plus, Family, Unlimited, Professional, B2B bundles).

It will:

• Enable scripting, both for personal scripts and for user management in enterprise setups
• Provide secure credential access directly in the terminal
• Allow users to create, read, update, and delete vaults and items
• Let users view, retrieve, create, update, and delete passwords, secure notes, credit cards, identities, WiFi entries, custom items, and stored SSH-key items
• Support vault member management
• Work in CI/CD, servers, containers, and headless environments via app-password authentication
• Enable simple scripted workflows and task automation

Stay in the flow and stay secure with Proton Pass CLI.

Read more: https://proton.me/blog/proton-pass-cli

Hello,

First, I'm not expecting any specific amount of support, or absolute resolution, as I'm fairly certain this falls under non-standard use. So, this is for testing and experimentation. Thanks ahead of time for any help or guidance you can think of!

Testing the recent CLI program in the Linux Development Environment on a Pixel 6a, GrapheneOS, I've had an error come up.

proton.keyring_linux.core.keyring_linux:120 | ERROR | Keyring keyring.backends.SecretService.Keyring (priority: 5) error
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 48, in send_and_get_reply
    raise DBusErrorResponse(resp_msg)
jeepney.wrappers.DBusErrorResponse: [org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod] ('Object does not exist at path “/org/freedesktop/secrets/collection/login”',)

The above exception was the direct cause of the following exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 177, in get_default_collection
    return Collection(connection)
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 45, in __init__
    self._collection.get_property('Label')
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 67, in get_property
    (signature, value), = self.send_and_get_reply(msg)
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 52, in send_and_get_reply
    raise ItemNotFoundException('Item does not exist!') from resp
secretstorage.exceptions.ItemNotFoundException: Item does not exist!

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 61, in get_preferred_collection
    collection = secretstorage.get_default_collection(bus)
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 179, in get_default_collection
    return create_collection(connection, 'Default', 'default', session)
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 159, in create_collection
    raise PromptDismissedException('Prompt dismissed.')
secretstorage.exceptions.PromptDismissedException: Prompt dismissed.

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/proton/keyring_linux/core/keyring_linux.py", line 111, in _is_backend_working
    keyring_backend.get_password(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 78, in get_password
    collection = self.get_preferred_collection()
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 63, in get_preferred_collection
    raise InitError("Failed to create the collection: %s." % e)
keyring.errors.InitError: Failed to create the collection: Prompt dismissed..
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX | proton.keyring_linux.core.keyring_linux:120 | ERROR | Keyring keyring.backends.SecretService.Keyring (priority: 5) error
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 48, in send_and_get_reply
    raise DBusErrorResponse(resp_msg)
jeepney.wrappers.DBusErrorResponse: [org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod] ('Object does not exist at path “/org/freedesktop/secrets/collection/login”',)

The above exception was the direct cause of the following exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 177, in get_default_collection
    return Collection(connection)
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 45, in __init__
    self._collection.get_property('Label')
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 67, in get_property
    (signature, value), = self.send_and_get_reply(msg)
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 52, in send_and_get_reply
    raise ItemNotFoundException('Item does not exist!') from resp
secretstorage.exceptions.ItemNotFoundException: Item does not exist!

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 61, in get_preferred_collection
    collection = secretstorage.get_default_collection(bus)
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 179, in get_default_collection
    return create_collection(connection, 'Default', 'default', session)
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 159, in create_collection
    raise PromptDismissedException('Prompt dismissed.')
secretstorage.exceptions.PromptDismissedException: Prompt dismissed.

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/proton/keyring_linux/core/keyring_linux.py", line 111, in _is_backend_working
    keyring_backend.get_password(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 78, in get_password
    collection = self.get_preferred_collection()
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 63, in get_preferred_collection
    raise InitError("Failed to create the collection: %s." % e)
keyring.errors.InitError: Failed to create the collection: Prompt dismissed..
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX | proton.keyring_linux.core.keyring_linux:120 | ERROR | Keyring keyring.backends.SecretService.Keyring (priority: 5) error
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 48, in send_and_get_reply
    raise DBusErrorResponse(resp_msg)
jeepney.wrappers.DBusErrorResponse: [org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod] ('Object does not exist at path “/org/freedesktop/secrets/collection/login”',)

The above exception was the direct cause of the following exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 177, in get_default_collection
    return Collection(connection)
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 45, in __init__
    self._collection.get_property('Label')
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 67, in get_property
    (signature, value), = self.send_and_get_reply(msg)
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/util.py", line 52, in send_and_get_reply
    raise ItemNotFoundException('Item does not exist!') from resp
secretstorage.exceptions.ItemNotFoundException: Item does not exist!

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 61, in get_preferred_collection
    collection = secretstorage.get_default_collection(bus)
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 179, in get_default_collection
    return create_collection(connection, 'Default', 'default', session)
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/secretstorage/collection.py", line 159, in create_collection
    raise PromptDismissedException('Prompt dismissed.')
secretstorage.exceptions.PromptDismissedException: Prompt dismissed.

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/proton/keyring_linux/core/keyring_linux.py", line 111, in _is_backend_working
    keyring_backend.get_password(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 78, in get_password
    collection = self.get_preferred_collection()
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/keyring/backends/SecretService.py", line 63, in get_preferred_collection
    raise InitError("Failed to create the collection: %s." % e)
keyring.errors.InitError: Failed to create the collection: Prompt dismissed.

Given what I've seen, it's trying to access keyring, can't find relevant files, and fails to do what it's wanting.

In a stimulated environment like this, similar to maybe docker/podman as I've noticed, a 'regular' boot/initialization doesn't occur and seemingly neither does a logon. So, keyring and other relevant files, services, or utilities just may not get initialized as a program might expect or need.

Though, a keyring program seems installed, and autocomplete even works to enter the name in the terminal, that doesn't mean it's operating as needed.

Given no regular desktop environment to utilize; as the 6a seems to not function with that aspect of the Linux Dev Environment, whether that would resolve this or not; there may not be a solution here.

In the past, with the same hardware and environment, I've gotten manual configuration of OpenVPN to work with config files, so, at least at the time of that experiment, it's seemingly feasible to use ProtonVPN through that method if needed.

Thanks again for any direction or advice. I hope you're having a good weekend.

When I used Mullvad with the kill switch on, I could still access local network resources--NAS, printers, etc.

Is there a way to make ProtonVPN do that? (On MacOS)

Sometimes, I can't find a login for something I'm pretty sure I recently saved into Proton Pass. It's possible that I also just didn't save the save button, but this has happened so many times to me on Proton Pass, but never when I was using Bitwarden.

So I'm wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience.

I had to ask this from the Proton support, but then found the anser now on my own, while waiting for their response.

When you upgrade Proton Pass on Linux (Ubuntu in my case), you're asked to verify the checksum. It' considered best practice and I agree although I'm quite new to Ubuntu/Linux (former MacOS guy).

Anyway the instruction from Proton are

Confirm the package’s integrity. You can verify its checksum on Debian and Ubuntu-based distros with the following command: echo "<SHA512CheckSum> ProtonPass.deb" | sha512sum --check -

I tried this a bunch of times without success. But what is really meant is that you should open the file mentioned a few lines further down https://proton.me/download/PassDesktop/linux/x64/version.json and copy the checksum from there and modify the command provided by the instructions. So in this case (current version) you should run this command: echo "d6910cacbcd47a5510a67876b63934b7b74819d4659e36cc698edcd3042358f079351a667458c3ca3ada16ac31649063e50f7d37f00c69e51770fafb6ae50d4b ProtonPass.deb" | sha512sum --check -

Which will give you ProtonPass.deb: OK

Not that obvious if you're new to the whole "linux scene".

I think JetBrains do a better job by providing the JetBrains Toolbox to manage installation and upgrade of their software in a more user friendly UI based way.

Same goes for Tuta Mail that simply has the Debian app announcing there's an upgrade and you click to apply it and the app restarts....

These ways are more user friendly and akin to what I'm accustomed to from being a Mac user for 25 years.

So if you like me need this extra help in understanding the upgrade instructions for Proton Pass, I hope this post will be of help. Or I find it again myself next time 😀

Sorry guys, I guess this is just a rant/venting post.

I've been a long proton user, for almost 8 years now. And still. Still can't use it as my main app. Especially for phone use. And the more I'm trying to get away from Google, the more painfully clear this is becoming. And the main reasons for this are stupid.

There's long standing requests for the app to actually work offline. They recently posted a few updates with some redesign that attempt to make it work slightly better offline. Because the previous behavior was outright terrible for any mobile app. Problem is, while there's improvements, it's still a million years away from being a reliable email app. I guess I'm going to put my main pet peeves here, for anyone either considering buying in, or maybe perhaps someone knowing a workaround.

-Email contents continue to being unsearchable (search only works on email subject). They kinda sorted this on the desktop browser version. Kinda. You can optionally download a large cache with your mailbox within the browser's storage permission for the proton page, and you can actually search messages by their contents in their bodies. This is not an option at all on the app. And the mobile browser version doesn't offer it either. So if you're not next to your computer, Proton in your phone is useless to find any email.

-Offline behavior is still bad. While it seems to download a cache of emails, there's no way to know if an specific email is available offline or not, and it's just the email subject with nothing else. This only becomes obvious once you are offline and try to open its contents (while...travelling? Boarding a plane? Good luck in those moments if you don't have data, and preferably a computer too). -Offline behavior follow-up: Email sending stays in the 'sent' folder. No way to know if an email is actively being sent/uploaded to the server, or it's actually an already sent message. Unless you turn offline and find out the bad way.

-The app doesn't behave like a normal Android provider for neither contacts, emails or calendar events. THat means, if you try to sync Proton Calendar events to your watch, you're SOL. I don't believe Proton email offers itself if you tap on an .eml file, and definitely you can't show your proton contacts in any other app, or easily share contacts from other apps to Proton. And while yes, there can be strong arguments to be made about how Google handles privacy in Android, there's people using GrapheneOS that don't use Google at all, just Android. This is an Android feature, not a Google feature. And the option should be given to the user to choose to sync their data.

Sorry for the rant/venting post. Any thoughts on this? Any possible solutions? Any roadmaps for when are these going to be addressed?

I have been using Proton only as a burner email service, but I've been intrigued about signing up for the paid version to get a few more of those with less restrictions.

I currently use a different VPN provider for my personal devices, and that's been fine. But I'm sharing some of my device slots with someone else.

Suppose I get a Proton subscription - would I be able to share device slots with someone without granting them access to the drive/emails etc? Obviously I can tell them "Hey I logged you in, don't mess with the settings or it will stop working", and I have full trust that they won't mess around with the settings.

It's cheaper for me to double up on my existing VPN subscription, but hey, I'm all about exploring options. I'm not thrilled about the recent political comments made by people in charge at Proton but I haven't seen enough red flags just yet.

The latest Android 16 is still at risk (only GrapheneOS is safe).

76% of the 100,000 apps analyzed are at risk.

Are Proton apps safe?

https://taptrap.click/

https://github.com/beerphilipp/taptrap

Many in the Proton community have been asking for an update on the Proton Drive SDK — especially developers eager to help build new clients or to integrate Drive into their apps. Linux users will be happy to hear that this SDK is a step toward offering a client, something we know is highly anticipated. Today, we’re sharing an early preview of our SDK work.

Important: This SDK is a work in progress. It’s not ready for production use or third-party apps yet. We’re sharing it to give you a look at what we’re building and to get insights on how you could use it — not for you to start building with it just yet.

from the team:

Hey everyone,

We are now able to share that Proton VPN has successfully passed its 4th consecutive independent audit of our strict no-logs policy, conducted by Securitum, a leading European security auditing company.

Key takeaways from the audit:

• No activity or metadata logs are kept anywhere on our servers.
• No inspection of user traffic occurs.
• Robust administrative and technical controls are in place, including automated configuration management and a dual-control change process.
• The no-logs policy is enforced uniformly across all servers, regions, and subscription tiers.

Don’t trust, verify is not just something we preach, but something we practice, so our no-logs policy has now been verified by independent experts; you don’t have to take our word for it.

📖 Read the full audit report here

Stay safe,

Proton Team

from the team:

Hi everyone,

We’re excited to announce that the new Proton Mail apps for iOS and Android are now available.

We’ve listened to your feedback, and this release is designed to address your needs and improve your experience.

Here’s what’s new:

• Faster performance: emails open quicker, routine actions, like scrolling your inbox, archiving threads, or replying on the go, all feel instant, and the overall app is more responsive.
• A modern design: managing your inbox is now easier thanks to a refreshed interface with simpler navigation.
• Offline mode: read, write, and organize emails without an internet connection. Changes sync automatically once you’re back online.
• Feature parity: iOS and Android now share the same features (such as snooze and schedule send), with updates rolling out in sync across both platforms.

On the technical side, the apps now share ~80% of their code thanks to a new architecture built in Rust.

Getting the update:

On iOS: you can update manually from the App Store.

On Android: the new version is gradually rolling out on the Play Store.

Read the full story here: https://proton.me/blog/new-mail-apps

This milestone wouldn’t have been possible without all of you, the Proton community. Thank you to everyone who tested early builds, reported bugs, and gave feedback. You’ve been a huge part of this journey.

On MacOS (but to my knowledge also on other platforms) Proton VPN provides an allow LAN connections option in the settings which enables the machine to access other devices on the local network (printers, smartphone, TV, etc.) even when the VPN connection is running.

My questions are as follows:

• Does allowing LAN connections make the VPN connection less secure in any way?
• If not, is there any reason as to why Proton VPN defaults to leaving this turned off?

I am aware that there is apparently an issue with the Kill Switch and the Allow LAN Connections options being mutually exclusive, but I was wondering whether there is more to it than that.

from the team:

Last month, we released split tunneling on Linux in Beta, and we’ve now added an ‘include’ mode as part of the latest release!

Thank you to everyone for helping us test and providing valuable feedback as we continue to improve our Linux app.

Here’s how to get the beta for:

✅ Debian

✅ Ubuntu

✅ Fedora

https://protonvpn.com/support/linux-beta

Please also note that:

The new Split Tunneling feature is not compatible with the Linux kernel 6.16, we are working on a fix. Until then, to use split tunneling, downgrade to an older kernel version.

Your existing Split Tunneling configuration will be reset on application start, the addition of the 'include' mode feature made this necessary. Stay safe,

Proton Team

Maybe I should've hopped the train way earlier, or maybe I'm just a whiny bitch, but I do NOT want to see pop-up ads on my paid service, especially for an even more expensive plan. Like dude, come on.