this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2025
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[–] fox2263@lemmy.world 58 points 2 days ago

The Apple event after was just insane. Jobs said about the previous announcement that Bungie is still making Halo for Mac. And Bungie and Microsoft reps came on and nervously said it is still being made.

It released in Xbox. And then PC. And then a long time later, a third party were hired to port it to Mac.

[–] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 60 points 2 days ago (12 children)

Apple announced a game without securing distribution rights first? Seems a bit shady on Bungie's part for letting them, and negligent on Apple's.

Also, if we want to paint the narrative that a potential future of Apple in gaming was stolen by Microsoft, wouldn't that put Apple in the perfect position now to hit back? They've been toying with the idea of bringing gaming to macOS, but they seem to want someone else to do the heavy lifting. On Linux you have Proton, and on macOS we had Whisky, but the guy threw in the towel when he realised another company was making a commercial product out of it, he didn't want to take away from the work they were doing. (To be fair, they had been at it longer.) But it seems like if Apple wants to be serious about gaming, they need to build something like Proton. Maybe they should buy Crossover and make it part of macOS. Let just any Mac user run games made for Windows. But I'm also not saying non-gamer Mac users should bear any part of the cost of gaming, but something gotta give somewhere.

Microsoft is screwing up by running people off of Windows when PC building costs are at record highs and the economy is so low, and running up the price of the Xbox due to a situation they had a hand in creating (the AI bubble). While Linux will be a better target for people with perfectly good computers who don't want to build a whole new one to satisfy Windows 11's requirements, anyone looking at the end of the life of their gaming PC should be looking at the M4 Mac mini at $500 and at least considering it. And Apple can help them make that decision by appealing to gamers and actually being serious about it. Because if fucking Apple of all companies starts taking gaming seriously, maybe Microsoft will again, too.

[–] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 22 hours ago

I could see myself running a MacMini M anything.

But my issues with Apple:

  • I don't like their philosophy in hardware
  • I don't like needing to bow to their design/handling of any setting (e.g. accepting that the color of a menu can only be X but not Y)
  • The hardware can never be upgraded.

At work I would only mildly care. But home pc? Nope.

[–] fartsparkles@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Apple already has the Game Porting Toolkit which is made by CodeWeavers - D3DMetal can run a lot of Windows games like Proton’s DXVK/VKD3D. MoltenVK is a little behind to fully empower VKD3D on macOS; it’s not as smooth sailing as Proton.

The biggest issue is that Apple are still hoping developers spend the time to work on converting shaders to Metal, implement Game Center, UI and Accessibility features etc so the game feels like a native app.

Which is dumb. As was Metal (they should have just made Metal as a Vulkan abstraction layer).

Valve took the smart route and while they love developers using the Steam SDK, at least with the Steam Overlay they can still offer a native-like feeling experience.

Here’s hoping Steam Machine etc is incredibly disruptive as if it’s a decent workstation too, there’s a dwindling number of reasons to not use Linux (Adobe / Affinity / Office / AutoCAD / MinecraftBE / Fortnite).

[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Wait, of all the tech companies in the world, you specifically chose Apple for the "don't want to throw perfectly good computers" line? The same Apple that every single year is routinely removing perfectly good computers from the newest MacOS compatibility list using same bullshit/fake requirements as Microsoft did with Windows 11?

"Don't want to throw your 8 years old 7th gen Intel PC because Windows 10 is EOL? Buy a new Mac and throw it after 6-7 years when MacOS is EOL for your device!"

[–] skisnow@lemmy.ca 3 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

My 3rd generation iPad became functionally useless after only 6-7 years even though the hardware was pristine. Almost half of the apps on it, including some major ones like YouTube, started refusing to run because they had a mandatory Update, and the App Store wouldn't provide updates for the newest iOS version that the 3rd gen could support.

Meanwhile my Windows laptop that I bought at the same time is still in service after 12 years. Windows going out of support just means you don't get the security updates; Apple going out of support means they'll brick your machine.

Fuck Apple to infinity.

[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 2 points 22 hours ago

It is exactly why I'm an apple hater, as an owner of an iPad mini and Intel iMac. Both are basically bricks.

The iPad can't even be used to browse websites because Apple it's so magnanimous to tie browser updates to the operating system. Once the os is EOL, the browser is EOL, and all the third party browsers too, as Apple forces devs to use the system browser as engine (= Firefox, Chrome for iOS basically are glorified Safari skins). Apps for iOS almost all require the latest version and you can't download a previous version unless you have a Time machine and you press download before the cutoff. Imagine on Android if apps required Android 15 and greater. Instead most of them can still run on Android 10 and even earlier.

The iMac, despite being a 4th gen Intel with dedicated AMD GPU, it's also a brick. Every app (including Firefox, Chrome, etc) requires a recent MacOS version (here devs aren't targeting latest and greatest, but still is annoying). Of course Apple still ties Safari updates on the operating system. Imagine on PC if apps required Windows 11 24H1. Because newer versions of MacOS don't have the driver for my dedicated GPU, they can't be tricked to install a newer version (I tried, it's unbearable to use MacOS without GPU acceleration, with all that eye candy it's a must have)

At least the iMac could run a different operating system... Debian shows a black screen and I would need an external monitor, Arch somehow turns off the USB ports on the back and I can't use keyboard and mouse... I have to use Windows 10....

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[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Maybe they should buy Crossover and make it part of macOS

Absolutely no! Previous acquisition prove that they'll stop any kind of work on Linux (that means backports on Wine, codeweawer is a massive sponsor) and for almost nothing.

And the end result will be like Rosetta, introduce a perfect interpreter but discontinue and remove it from the operating system a few years later because you want to push developers to make native builds and push consumers to throw their perfectly working PowerPC and buy an Intel Mac

[–] deltapi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Some things have survived, like CUPS...but yeah, their track record isn't great.

[–] nemith@programming.dev 38 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Hard to imagine but back in the day it wasn’t up to your operating system to distribute software. They were just a platform and you had open choice to obtain software.

Apple showcasing what their hardware and software was capable of was normal. I don’t think this was negligent but maybe naive seeing how things are run now. It was much better and we got better products and competition.

Budgie was an apple developer before with Marathon which was exclusive not because of any distribution rights but just preference for the platform.

Alas money talks.

There have been exclusives for a long time, even before Halo. Mostly console, because Windows hasn’t really faced competition. Macs could never decide on a chipset. First it was Motorola, then PowerPC, then Intel, and now Apple Silicon. It’s a moving target. Apple Silicon may not be forever either. If Apple wants to get into gaming, I can see them working with AMD, but not soon.

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Apple is dipping their toes in the gaming water. Like couple of weeks ago they had a livestream, outside the WWDC schedule, about porting pc games to MacOs. They have even made plugins for Unity and put them on GitHub. So at least they take gaming a bit more seriously than they did under Steve Jobs.

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 28 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Apple had a handshake deal with Bungie, until Microsoft bought Bungie and made the Mac exclusive an Xbox exclusive.

It came full circle when Halo CE SE was released ~~as a Mac exclusive~~ on Mac & PC. And it is arguably the best version of the original game on any platform (higher resolution textures without a complete remake, exclusive multiplayer weapons, etc.).

[–] Jeffool@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

It's a popular misconception that Halo was intended to be a Mac exclusive when it was revealed. It was going to be released on Mac and PC.

You may know that, but a lot of people think that it was revealed at Macworld because it was exclusive. But it was just a headliner in a statement of "hey, we can play games too!" In fact the literal game they were running on stage was actually running backstage on a PC.

[–] vikingtons@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Can you elaborate on CE SE? Is this different from the 2003 Mac port? As far as I'm aware, the port to Mac had lower resolution textures on top of certain rendering issues, poorer AI behaviour etc.

[–] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Bungie made games for Mac originally. The 2003 Mac version isn’t a port, It’s the original game. The PC and Xbox versions are the port. That’s why it feels like it’s behind those. Because it literally did have less development time despite coming out later.

They released another Halo for Mac a few years later that I think is the one the other commenter is talking about. It came out around the time of the MacBook Air and as a result is the only game I know of that has an official no-cd patch.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

The PC and Xbox versions are the port.

this is factually incorrect. the first builds shown at macworld were not a full build of the game by any stretch. they were tech demos, essentially. once the deal was done afaik no work was done on the mac platform for years.

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[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago

If I recall right, the only exlusive weapon was the Flamethrower, but they also added the missile Warthog. Might be forgetting some other weapons though, as I never had the Xbox version.

I had some fun when I was younger modding the demo. The only content stripped out of it were the levels, so there were all these custom versions of the Blood Gulch map floating around with Ghosts and Scorpion tanks, etc.

I liked messing with weapon properties. Had my own temu/wish.com "cursed halo at home" long before it was a real thing.

  • Sniper rifle fired plasma grenades, and you could do fun stuff like stacking two so the first would throw the second into the air and the trail and explosion made it like a flare.
  • Shotgun fired a spread of frag grenades instead of bullets, and pushed you backwards a bit.
  • Pistol was more accurate, slightly faster, much less damage, and pushed whoever got hit back a ton. You could easily juggle someone up into the skybox with it. It pushed vehicles too.
  • Rocket launcher fired a massive ball of rockets that would lag everything.
  • Flamethrower fired rockets instead of flames, with a much higher ammo pool, but no other changes. So rocket sprinkler.
  • Fully charged plasma pistol fired a Scorpion Tank shot. I think the non charged ones homed in to a stupid extent.
  • Chaingun Warthog fired needler rounds with an increased lifetime.
  • Assault rifle worked as area denial, setting an area in an orb shape around you on fire.
  • The plasma cannon thing would spawn a Scorpion tank over your head, crushing you.
  • I think I turned the needler into a shotgun blast thing, but it still fired needles.
  • I think I changed the elites' plasma smg thing to start firing slowly but "rev up" to stupid fast speeds, and then the cooldown hurt your shields?
  • There was something that would call down a larger version of the plasma cannon projectile from the sky, with a larger explosion radius and a stupid big/strong pushback effect.
  • Vehicle crashes called the same kind of system as a projectile hitting, so you were effectively "shot" with a vehicle impact "bullet" as a rider if you crashed too hard. Congrats that's now a frag grenade explosion. That one was shamelessly stolen from a tutorial.

That's what I remember at least.

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Someone else said that Apple want everyone to use Metal on MacOS, and don't properly support OpenGL. Which seems like a bigger problem than absence of some variants of Wine.

[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's not they don't properly support opengl, is that they intentionally chose to stop any kind of development on opengl 8 years ago, so devs are forced to choose between using an ancient version of opengl or make a native "metal" build.

Their idea is that once devs spent thousands of hours on their "metal" engine, then they will focus exclusively or primarily on apple devices

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I don't quite understand what ‘stop development’ means here. Do you mean developing support for OpenGL in the GPU drivers?

[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

In the GPU drivers

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Bungie had always been a Mac first, PC/console later game dev up to that point.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago

yes, but not because Apple did anything to encourage it - so when MS came along with a briefcase full of benjamins it wasn't a tough choice

[–] v0rld@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Apple can't even be arsed to support games that were released on their own platform like 5 years ago. Why would they suddenly start bothering to support games released for other platforms?

[–] REDACTED 3 points 2 days ago (4 children)

To be fair they did move to a completely different CPU architecture and ARM is a hit or miss in gaming. Some games are fine, but then there are ones like Minecraft that ran better on my 10 year old Intel than on a top of the line M processor

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[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

Because if fucking Apple of all companies starts taking gaming seriously, maybe Microsoft will again, too.

You can't expect large megacorps to "do the right thing", no matter how you define that. Linux is the only path towards open-source software and promotion.

[–] nocturne@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

macOS we had Whisky, but the guy threw in the towel when he realised another company was making a commercial product out of it, he didn't want to take away from the work they were doing.

I misunderstood what happened with whiskey, I thought he was making a free version of a paid product.

[–] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 2 days ago (2 children)

No, he wasn't making a free version of Crossover, but it did the same thing as Crossover. They both use free software made by WINE. The Whisky dev was not stealing from Crossover. However, Crossover gives some of its proceeds to the WINE community, so the Whisky developer felt that users using Whisky were indirectly cheating the WINE community by getting a free ride. Note that Proton and WINE are free. Crossover is the outlier being paid, but Crossover also gives back.

There are no assholes in this situation whatsoever. Not the Whisky dev for giving us a free alternative and not the Whisky users not paying for Crossover. Not even Crossover since they contribute to WINE. If there are any assholes, it's developers who make games for Switch but not Mac (since they're both ARM64 platforms; obviously not counting first-party Nintendo developers), people who pirated Crossover, and developers not developing at all for ARM64. But that's a stretch and I'm not after any of those people, I'm just saying, if someone has to be an asshole, that's where I'd look, not at Whisky/its dev/its users, and not at Crossover/its dev/its users.

[–] False@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Valve pays Codeweavers (developers of Wine and Crossover directly), so it's not like using Proton takes money away from them.

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago (12 children)

Having a nightmare vision of the future where Apple releases it's own gaming console

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago

I mean didn't Microsoft just bring Apple back from going bankrupt around that time. Had to have competition so they wouldn't become declared a monopoly. So you bail out your friends

[–] radix@lemmy.world 20 points 2 days ago

The Pippin 2.

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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

And Infinite is likely the end, at least for me...

[–] CluckN@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

Infinity was such a joke. They told everyone it was going to have a 10 year support plan despite the gaming coming out unfinished. Master Chief collection is great.

[–] mika_mika@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I have only played 1, 3, and Infinite. My halo experience has been great and I never really felt the burnout or lack of innovation.

[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

If you're only interested in multiplayer then those are solid options. If you like campaign then you should definitely check out 2, ODST, and Reach.

[–] tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Good on ya for sticking with it that long. I stopped at 4. Tried 5 but couldn’t get through it and I only had it bc it came with the wife's Xbox.

Edit: just to add, I’m not even sure what it is since I like some of the things they’ve tried. Like, I love the multiplayer bots. They’re just fun to mess around.

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