this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
787 points (96.6% liked)

Memes

45581 readers
1 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
787
6÷2(1+2) (programming.dev)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by wischi@programming.dev to c/memes@lemmy.ml
 

https://zeta.one/viral-math/

I wrote a (very long) blog post about those viral math problems and am looking for feedback, especially from people who are not convinced that the problem is ambiguous.

It's about a 30min read so thank you in advance if you really take the time to read it, but I think it's worth it if you joined such discussions in the past, but I'm probably biased because I wrote it :)

(page 4) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] uskok@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I agree with your core message, that the issue is caused by bad notation. However I don't really see why you consider implicit multiplication to be the sole reason. In my mind, a/bc is equally as ambiguous as a/b*c. The symbols are not important.

You don't even consider this in your article, instead you seem to take the position that the operations are resolved from left to right. This idea probably comes from programming languages, as they commonly use this convention, but I haven't seen this defined in mathematics anywhere. I'm open to being wrong here, so if you can show me such a definition from an authoritative source (maybe ISO) I'd be thankful.

As it stands, you basically claim "the original notation is ambiguous, but with explicit × the answer is obviously nine, because my two calculators agree", even though you just discounted calculator proofs. By the way, both calculators explicitly define this left-to-right order in their documentation.

The ISO section 7.1.3 you quoted is very reasonable and succinct, and contradicts your claim that explicit multiplication sign removes ambiguity. There would be no need for this section if a left-to-right rule existed.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] damnthefilibuster@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (9 children)

What the heck are you all fighting about? It’s BODMAS.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] Alcatorda@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Hi! Nice blog post. Since you asked for feedback I'll point out the one thing I didn't really understand. You explain the difference between the calculators by showing excerpts from the manuals and you highlight that in the first manual, implicit multiplication is prioritised. But the text you underlined only refers to implicit multiplication involving special expressions(?) like pi, e, sqrt or log, and nothing about "regular" implicit multiplication like 2(1+3). So while your photos of the calculator results are great proof that the two models use a different order of operations, to me the manuals were a bit confusing since they did not actually seem to prove your point for the example math problems you are discussing. Or maybe I missed something?

[–] wischi@programming.dev 2 points 2 years ago

You are right the manual isn't very clear here. My guess is that parentheses are also considered Type B functions. I actually chose those calculators because I have them here and can test things and because they split the implicit multiplication priority. Most other calculators just state "implicit multiplication" and that's it.

My guess is that the list of Type B functions is not complete but implicit multiplication with parentheses should be considered important enough for it to be documented.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I am so glad that nothing I do in life will ever cause this problem to matter to me.

The way I was taught in school, the answer is clearly 1, but I did read the blog post and I understand why that's actually ambiguous.

Fortunately, I don't have to care, so will sleep well knowing the answer is 1, and that I'm as correct as anyone else. :-p

load more comments (1 replies)

Very cool article on an aspect of math that I've never thought too deeply about before 👍

[–] agni@lemmings.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] baggins@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago (5 children)

That's cool and Imma let you finish but I'm not a mathematician and the answer is 9.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›