What if... All systems are inherently corrupt because of human nature and we just have to choose the best one of the crappy lot to survive and that's definitely not crony capitalism?

[–] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Indeed.

[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If humans are inherently corrupt, how did we get to where we are now? If we never worked together and wanted to be greedy all the time, how did we get a post information age society?

[–] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Not everyone is inherently corrupt, but all social power systems tend to elevate those that are corrupt to power. E.g. corrupt politicians get campaign donations as bribes and therefore win elections. People who don't mind lying and slander can discredit their opponents. People who don't mind hiring assassins can get their opponents killed etc.

The interesting thing about capitalism is that everyone who is rich has an incentive to prevent others from amassing enough power to confiscate their riches or otherwise threaten their positions and enough influence to do something about it. That is why democracies fare best in capitalism while other systems tend to devolve to authoritarianism.

So capitalism breeds enough corruption so that the rich can benefit from it, but limits it so that the corruption doesn't threaten the rich. Of course, that is just general tendency, not a rule or anything so there are plenty of exceptions and mechanisms that can further modify the power dynamics like unions and collective bargaining.

[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm sure that is how Marx saw capitalism; spot on analysis. (/s in case you need it)

I especially love the apologia you have for the ruling class.

You say all these words as if humans never lived in anything other than capitalism.

Also, you never answered my question.

[–] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Where did I do any apologizing for anyone?

Where did I say humans can't live in anything else than capitalism?

What does Marx have to do with anything?

Perhaps you should try to read my comment better.

[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

"That is why democracies fare best in capitalism while other systems tend to devolve to authoritarianism."

Your own words...

Apologists.

[–] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

How does that apologize "the ruling class"? Is saying "democracy is good" apologising Trump?

I merely claim capitalism is the most workable system we have. I am not defending the greedy assholes in power.

[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 days ago

The fact that you ask for an explanation is telling on how you view class war.

Apologist, because in your view there is no other system but capitalism. You have already given up and are allowing those that would enslave you more to do so.

You don't see the chains on your wrists because you are comfortable.

Democracy is independent of an economic system.

If you believe in democracy so much, maybe we should have it in the workplace? That would sound much more democratic than what we have now, no?

[–] Juliee@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

How do you even want to have a communism without the Marx theoretised over abundance and infinite supply of goods? I don’t think we are going to have that any time soon last I checked.

All the attempts so far were so called socialism intermediary step because there is no prophesied infinite abundance just yet and someone would have to regulate who gets what that poses all sorts of problems and abuse risks

Hence we don’t have some kind of god who regulates who gets what extensively and we let the market do this and see it as the most just system currently possible

It’s possible that one day technology enables us to naturally progress to communism. Fusion power, infinite energy is a good bet but even then there will still be limited goods such as land. I personally certainly dream of a Star Trek society why not but it isn’t something imminent.

So far we are stuck with distribution of goods as a competition and we should try to make it as fair and just of a sport as possible but the exact rules of the game will remain a point of contention between American libertarianism and European welfare states

[–] socsa@piefed.social 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

To be fair, unchecked corruption is certainly not unique to capitalism.

[–] b_n@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

That can also be true. But what if corruption was a feature of capitalism. Not saying that it is unique to capitalism.