Flower color in columbines is strictly genetic. Hybridization between populations is common to get all sorts of colors. If you usually end up with red flowers that's because that population is better adapted to your environment. I usually end up with more blues.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/wildflowers/beauty/columbines/birdsandbees.shtml

Now environmental conditions can change the expression of flower color in some species. For example hydrangeas will bloom blue or red based upon the soil pH. White hydrangeas are not affected by soil pH, they always bloom white. The degree of pigmentation can also shift in roses based upon temperature. So you'll get more intense color under cooler conditions and paler colors under hot conditions. The genetics doesn't change but the expression of the traits can.

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (8 children)

Your link doesn’t support what you say. Like at all.

Over many years, interbreeding can result in a stable population that is a completely different color. Alpine meadows filled with columbines of an intermediate color have been observed throughout the western United States.

They change colours, the specifics are moot. Red is what’s natural here, so they will usually shift back to that colour. If blue is natural where you are, the flowers will typically shift back to that colour.

The mix didn’t have any red to begin with either.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago (7 children)

The paragraph you quoted is the exact bit that supports my statement. Since you didn't understand it allow me to define some things

Interbreeding - this is sexual reproduction from flower to seed to a new plant between two different population groups or species. This refers to generations not one plant.

Stable population - this is a term used in population genetics to describe the expression of traits is relatively unchanging from one generation to the next in a population.

The author also describes a few mechanisms for how the colors change in the population. The color preference of the dominant pollinator is the major selection pressure.

A few other bits of information. Columbines are biannual/short lived perennials. The first year or couple of years the plants grow vegetatively and do not bloom. When the plant gets large enough it blooms and produces seed. The plant then dies at the end of the season. That fall or the next spring the seeds germinated and it takes 2-4 years for the plant to flower and the cycle to repeat itself.

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

And you don’t seem to be able to comprehend that most people don’t have large enough gardens to supply proper hybridization, so it naturally goes back to the natural colour. If I had a large garden, what you said CAN happen, but in almost all situations, it doesn’t properly interbreed, it reverts to its natural colour.

Also, again, no reds to begin with, and I’ve dead headed the plant every year, it’s never seeded itself.

Most people will have columbines that shift back to the natural colours, not provide hybridization since there’s not enough to compete with the naturals, so they take back over. So what you’re describing, isn’t what most people will see with their plants. If you want to talk about edge cases like it’s the norm. Go and bloviate dude.

This was all stuff we were warned about ahead of time by the nursery.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The nursery completely misled you. This is extremely common. Nursuries spread whatever myth is convenient to pacify their customers. So kindly stop spreading their bullshit.

Here is the likely original source of the seed. It's one of two wholesale supplies that produce the seed.

https://www.applewoodseed.com/product/columbine-mckana-giants-mix/

This is a segregating population many different colors. They hybrid refers to an inter-specific cross back in the 1950's.

Not all of the colors will bloom at the same time. Some bloom after one year, others bloom after 2-3 years. Columbines also have what is called seed dormancy. Seeds can remain in the soil for several years before they germinate.

What you think of is one plant is likely 10 or so individual plants completing their lifecycle the past few years.

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

It’s not McKanas, there’s more than one mix of columbines.

I’m also not in the USA.

This isn’t just one nursery dude. Your own link doesn’t even corroborate what you’ve said. We shopped multiple nurseries. You’re literally the only one on the internet claiming this.

I know this is more than one plant…. That’s why the colours shifting, because some have died out, and some have changed colour. Again for the third bloody time, this never started with red in it. And nothing you’ve provided have said they don’t change colours. In fact they say they do, I even provided the part of YOUR source that states this.

You’re wrong dude, leave it.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You can't even follow my explanations can you. Oh well....

FYI, You've been arguing plant genetics and gene expression with a commercial plant breeder... LMAO.

Thanks for the entertainment.

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

If you’re a commercial plant breeder I feel sorry for your clients.

In your last comment you say there is only a few resellers, which is applicable in the US, where I don’t reside. You also link the McKanas giant mix. Which clearly my 1” blooms aren’t… so your entire claims should be brought under question. I even stated this in my previous comment, which you of course ignored since it shows your lack of comprehension.

You are the type of person who just googles something and runs with it aren’t you? Your first link even talks about how they do change colour, so it really sounds like you have a surface depth knowledge and are bloviating about adjacent topics to make yourself look smart.

You can’t even provide a source that backs up your claim, and almost all other sources and nurseries say otherwise. __ So yeah, if you are actually a commercial breeder, people either need avoid you, or you probably aren’t what you claim.

I also haven’t argued with you about anything, you keep going off on tangents when I talk about my plants shifting colours as they naturally do, like your own link even states… so if you enjoy arguing with yourself, you should maybe go and get checked out mate. Because this is completely one sided.

You mis ID the plant and have talked with such confidence about the US situation…. where I don’t even reside… for the umpteenth time.

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