this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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Then explain to me what an tree is. Is it the presence or absence of hemi-celluose? Lignin? Welwitschia has both. Is it a tree?
Does it have to evolve from another tree? Can you make a group of trees that isn't paraphyletic?
“trees” (and “herbs”) aren’t natural clades but rather form‑based, morphological grades, and only really colloquially so. In cladistic terms they’re polyphyletic or at best paraphyletic. Its a term that pulls together organisms by shared structure (woodiness, height, lack of wood) rather than by a single common ancestor and all its descendants. But it doesn't need to meet all of those terms to fall into the group.
Its fine to call it a tree. They are pretty tall, and they fill the role many tree species fill. You can't grow them like an "herb", whatever tf that is. You have to manage them like you would a tree. If you call it a banana tree people will know what you are talking about. Its what people who grow bananas call them, which is usually a better source for a use-term.
It's considered an herb because the vegetation dies back after fruiting, instead of remaining persistent. If you really want to get technical it's a forb, which is an herb that isn't grass-like. But yeah, it's literally just a description of its growth habit. I don't think I've ever heard someone casually calling a Wisteria a "liana" , for example, because it's not really a helpful term outside of certain botanical contexts
My broader point was to dismiss the ungrounded pedantry of insisting that a Banana tree is an "herb" rather than a tree.
Likewise "forb" as a term isn't any more meaningful than "herb" or "tree", and if one is going to engage in pedantry, then you need to actually get it fully and technically correct, which you can't do with words like "herb" or "tree" or "forb" because they aren't technical words with scientific (read: testable) definitions.
The argument about about which term is more correct isn't meaningful, because neither are. There isn't a technically agreed upon definition for what is an "herb" and what is a "tree" because they aren't technical terms. And in those situations, we should just use the term most useful to the "thing" , which in this case, is "tree".
My issue isn't with calling a banana an herb or a tree. My issue is the pedantry around correcting someones language towards a no-more-correct, and perhaps even less correct term. If you are going to correct someone, you need to actually be correct. And its no more correct to call a banana a tree than it is an herb. I grow and sell both bananas, and yes, banana trees (also known as pups or keiki). That's what the people who grow and farm them call them.
I was agreeing with you that it's silly to correct someone calling it a tree outside of specific contexts, just like arguing a tomato isn't a vegetable.
For what it's worth, I have had to learn the growth habits of plants in ecology classes for a degree that I am currently earning. I have plant identification books that use those terms, because they do have a technical use.
Yeah, because you're studying something related to botannical sciences, this dude is just taking his google searches and saying "WELL AKSHUALLY." He doesn't have a clue, that's why he is being so pedantic.
Bro you don't have a clue.
Oh Bro Bro Bro Bro, where'd all the jargon go? Where are the big words and scientific terms that you don't understand? Where have they gone bro? Where's the taxonomical definitions Bro? Left them on wikipedia I assume.
Give me a definition that you'll stand by for a tree then. One that encompasses everything we should consider a tree and nothing which shouldn't be included.