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Centrism doesn’t mean sitting on a fence. It means most of the time understanding that both sides are right and wrong at the same time, I often see the problem identified correctly but the solution that is prescribed is absolutely incorrect.
Here are some centrist positions.
We need to stop unfettered immigration, so closing the borders is great, locking up and kicking out immigrants who have committed legal offenses is good, and we should expedite that process but we shouldn’t be kidnapping or profiling people. We shouldn’t be giving economic assistance to illegal immigrants. I know it doesn’t happen at the federal level but it does happen at the state level.
Banning guns won’t solve the violence problem, guns don’t kill people people kill people. American violence is caused by inequality and lack of mental healthcare. Solve that instead of taking guns away.
We should have higher taxes, universal healthcare and stronger safety nets but also much less regulation because most of it is actually designed to protect the incumbent corporations. Free the markets as much as possible, but never bail out a single corporation that fails, bail out the employees.
Increasing the minimum wage does nothing.
Instead of relying on underpaid immigrant labor the US should stop giving cash and tax subsidies to farmers and instead directly subsidize their wages by paying the employees directly. This is my middle of the road solution, we should actually consider nationalization of farms. One of the few things where that could work right now because I think nationalization in general leads to terrible mismanagement. But farms are already inefficient, corrupt and mismanaged and also living on the government tits so we might as well.
Justifying things as “scientific” when the science is social science and the results are not reproducible is intellectually dishonest, and is rampant in discourse about various topics nowadays. The academia brought upon themselves the mistrust they have garnered. This is good because universities have become job training centers and they were never meant to be that, so maybe we’re due for a little creative destruction.
I could continue, but I got shit to do.
Yeah but the problem with so many right/"centrist" positions is that they're factually incorrect.
I’m open to changing my mind, but you need proof rather than just saying that I’m incorrect. I have yet to see compelling evidence that raising minimum wage makes any difference at all in the long term. A lot of studies have been made to prove that it doesn’t cause job loss but none that prove that it changes the levels of inequality or pulls people out of poverty in real economic terms.
Proof: It's literally what the Mexican government did in 2018-2024. Lifted millions of people out of poverty even as the economy mostly remained the same and/or shrunk. See: https://apnews.com/article/poverty-mexico-president-andres-manuel-lopez-obrador-social-welfare-c7ec7f184ce8163e84fffa1b9f47aed8
Right there it says that there are other measures that led to the reduction in poverty. Here’s my thing, if you increase the minimum wage, don’t change the definition or the line at which someone is considered to be living in poverty, and run a census the next day poverty will appear to have been reduced by a lot because everyone is now making the increased minimum wage yay! However if there’s inflation, in a few more months we might be back to where we were in the first place in real terms, however unless you change the line in which poverty begins, you will still be able to clam that you decreased poverty. Poverty is not about the money someone is making, but rather how much what they make buys.
I’m in favor of social nets but, again, I dont see compelling evidence that raising minimum wage is anything but a placebo.
So you're leaving the US, considering you're an illegal immigrant here right? I mean, unless you're indigenous it seems pretty illegal for you to claim any right to live here and boot others out. See the issue with saying people are illegal?
"Living on the governments tit" is straight up right-winger bullshit. We pay taxes, why the fuck should the government hoard that money and use it on shit that doesn't benefit the people? That is the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of a government, to pool resources and skills to better society as a whole.
You think science is bullshit and that higher education should be "creatively" destroyed. How you think that isn't fascism is some serious mental gymnastics.
You could continue, but you know your viewpoint is hard right and you're too cowardly to stick around and defend your bullshit because your fragile fee-fees will be hurt.
True on your other points, but here they're saying the money should be given to employees rather than employers. That's not rightwing at all; it's leftwing if anything. I mean it's the farming version of being anti-corporate welfare.
Sure, that had a semblance of socialism and rational thought to it, but the fact that they spin it as a negative and imply that the government shouldn't be funding social welfare is pretty clear in showing that they're too ignorant to actually understand what socialism is.
Ironic, considering that right-wingers more than any other group rely on sucking the governments tit to survive day to day
First, they're not claiming to be socialist. Second, they're criticizing corporate welfare, not social welfare. They support social welfare in the exact same comment. Rich pricks sucking on the government's tit and providing nothing to society is a bad thing, or at least the leftwing position considers it to be a bad thing. Are you even reading what they wrote?
First, I never said they were a socialist. Pretty clear they aren't, not sure where you're going with that. Second, they're criticizing the government using tax dollars to ensure we have functional agriculture. Cutting funding for agriculture and giving the funding to corporations instead is literally being carried out by the regime, as shown in project 2025 and with doge cuts.
But sure, we can just assume it's a coincidence that they agree with the fascists on that.
Exactly. I think government and corporations exist to generate wealth to benefit society. Right now it exists to benefit corporations.
Free open borders doesn’t work unless everyone, literally everyone is working on the same legal framework . This could be good long term project for humanity but as it stands right now now, national divisions matter. You can’t have people that weren’t born here overwhelming our nation and getting aid when our own people are suffering economic hardship. The problem with people like you is that you want everything now, and that’s not possible except through extreme violence and often ends up not solving the problems. I would love to be able to remake the system from the top down, but we know that never ends right.
I don’t think science is bullshit, I think non reroducible experiments are not science. I love science, but the social sciences in the present exist in the same stage of development as medicine was in the Middle Ages. This is a provable fact. Universities need to be centers of knowledge again and not job training centers.
Like someone pointed out, I said corporations are living off the government tit, that’s a fact. I would prefer if the tit was feeding us instead. I think I made it very clear that I’m pro social safety nets.
Our nation is not overwhelmed with immigrants stealing our jobs and resources, as much as fox news has convinced you that is the case. It's in fact fascists and capitalists doing that, not that I expect you understand the difference between the working class and capiltalist class.The problem with you people, to use your phrasing, is you think there are MS13 members on every block shooting Americans and taking their paychecks, but "the left" is covering it up.
You keep saying there are studies and provable facts showing science is fake. Let's see it, show us your peer reviewed sources showing us how fake science is.
You did not say corporations. You said farms. Should I quote it back to you? Here: "But farms are already inefficient, corrupt, and mismanaged and also living on the government tits". No coincidence that the Trump regime says the same shit and is cutting agriculture funding and instead lining billionaire pockets, which brings us back to point one. Though I'd imagine you think the leftist immigrants are also the CEOs
I don’t think that, but I do know that if 1 singe American is having a hard time while we are helping 1 illegal immigrant, then we are doing something wrong and it will breed resentment.
You are a bad faith argumenter. I’ve never said science is fake, I’ve said that social science (though it also happens in the natural sciences to a lesser degree) is not really science, not with any degree of certainty as physics etc. here’s a little summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis?wprov=sfti1
but searching in Google Scholar or JSTOR will bring up many many studies about the problem. So when people say “the science backs this” using a social science study that is not replicable, it takes two brain cells to realize that no, there is no science backing such a claim.
But again you are arguing in bad faith and I do not think that you have any coherent ideology that isn’t “oppose everything the other guys do”.
See, the problem is that you think immigrants don't deserve basic human dignity, while we do. I don't care if someone is born in Missouri or Mexico City; they both deserve guaranteed access to basic services, and we as a country are more than wealthy enough to provide it.
I never said the opposite. But social nets have their limits because resources are not infinite. First we need to make sure the material needs of our people are met before we can help others. I don’t understand how this is a controversial thing to say.
The idea that we don't have the resources to help everyone is patently false. We could provide for everyone on Earth with about 40% of total production. The problem is not the very poor, crammed into tiny apartments and eating bad food. The problem is the ultrawealthy controlling orders of magnitude more wealth than they could even remotely need.
Secondly, again: claiming we need to help 'our own' before 'others' is inherently exclusionary. I count every person on Earth as 'our own'. You apparently don't.
True we have the resources in theory. The problem is that the necessary structural change to do that right now is so great that it can only be done by literally nuking civilization out of existence and starting over again. Seeing as that might not actually be a good option, we need to slow walk it because the other ways have been tried and they don’t end well
And yes I’m exclusionary because everyone else is. I would love to hop on a plane and move to somewhere in Spain right now. But guess what? They don’t make it that easy. That’s what I meant earlier when I said something about everyone being on the same legal framework. I couldn’t find th right words but the gist is that unless every country on earth has open borders then no country on earth should have open borders.
Nope. Other countries having bad policy is no excuse for our country to. We're the fucking wealthiest country on Earth. Oh, and people like you who insist that structural change is impossible is the reason change is impossible. You are a self-fulfilling prophecy that continues our country's policy of commiting social murder. You are the problem.
It’s weird that all countries have the same policies if they are so bad. But here’s the fact: the stronger your safety nets, the more difficult do you have to make immigration lest the system collapse. And allowing immigrants that cannot access the safety nets is a sure fire way to increase your crime rate because now you have a underclass that wouldn’t have existed. So yes the US should have laxer immigration policies than other countries, but not full blown open borders. Not unless there is a practical reason to do so, which there isn’t.
I never said it was impossible, I said we need to slow walk it because it can’t be radical, not unless you are willing to commit literal murder. I’d advocate for accelerationism first before I advocate for killing people who oppose you ideologically.
So to sum up:
You think punishing immigrants will fix issues caused by capitalists somehow, don't worry about it they deserve it anyways
Whatever sciences you dislike (you keep saying social sciences, which I assume is a dogwhistle for anything you consider woke as you won't give specifics) are fake, but you can't prove it, just google it bro, you'll find the truth
You believe the fascist regime is doing a lot of things right
But it's us leftists that argue in bad faith and have no ideology, and are wrong for opposing things like fascism.
Thanks for playing.
Wow my guy, just wow. Bravo, you’ve turned this into an art.
This is literally what modern fascism is made of. It always starts with "expediting the process" and "immigrants who committed legal offenses," but these terms are so malleable that you will relatively soon end up at the kidnapping and profiling stage. And let's not get into how so-called "unfettered immigration" (which is actually pretty fettered when you look at the process) harms exactly nobody if handled properly, as many examples (e.g. Germany) show.
What kind of regulation do you want gone?
Social science is science and underpins many aspects of modern society such as urban design. Do you have an example of this in action?
Fascism has an established definition. Hell there’s a literal manifesto
Everything you said here i agree with, yet none of this shit you said is centrist
Then what is it? Because it sure as fuck doesn’t sound right wing but someone just called me right wing because I agree in some points with MAGA. 🤣
The sister comments to this one are already calling the poster a fascist :)
Literal fascism and/or communism
I identify as a fascist communist that leans libertarian