Another update and possibly a solution for some case where posts were not properly deleted. Seems I jumped the gun on this and the restores haven't been intentional - at least not in this particular case.
There is a limitation in the popular Powerdelete that apparently prevents mass editing. Here is a link to a new version with a build-in delay and some other alternatives:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/145fico/comment/jnl4xmr/
There are other reported cases where manually deleted post reappeared or other scripts have been used, so this doesn't solve all issues but explains how posts that were both edited and deleted withPowerdelete weren't properly deleted and reappeared after subs went back live.
Update: As some have pointed out: the restores can be rollbacks from the server issues or post haven't been properly deleted due to subs being private during blackouts. Many have experienced the same issue, I can't explain how this happens. I'll just run the script again, try the GDPR request and delete my account.
Also worth noting: according to the ToS Reddit can actually do whatever they want with existing content, apparently we agreed to this when signing up.
#redditblackout #redditmigration #kbin #lemmy
This is shitty of them to do but this is what people have been trying to tell us since the dawn of the internet. Nothing on the internet is EVER truly deleted
I think they may underestimate EU's response here.
DSGVO take the wheel
What response? The data on reddit is not personal, identifiable information, and would still have to be considered on a case-by-case basis. GDPR, generally, doesn't apply here.
Have a read through. It definitely relates to GDPR (and even the Right to be Forgotten). Those are our accounts, linked to our emails. It is content we generate (even Reddit admits the content is owned by the creator). So if I want to delete everything and leave no trace I should be able to.
https://www.cyberghostvpn.com/en_US/privacyhub/how-to-delete-reddit-account/
Those are our accounts, linked to our emails, which they are free to de-associate, and freely use for whatever commercial purposes they want.
That's debatable. Sure. my account doesn't actually contain my name and address, but it contains almost 14 years of posts and comments. Through the years I've probably let slip enough small pieces of information about myself that a motivated person would be able to identify me. This would still make it identifiable information.
Debatable? Yes, as that still hasn't been figured out at a higher level, and this is still handled on a case-by-case basis. Otherwise, they are free to keep your data, and simply no longer keep the association with your email.
Agreed. If a person’s speaking voice falls under the GDPR (as I have found out being a phonetician and hence doing research on it), surely opinions and comments taken not individually but as a cumulated mass must do so too.
Yes but if they take the user name off can they keep the comment text up. For most comments they probably could unless you were putting your name or your job title and company or similar in the body of the text.
Do you understand how trivial it is to anonymize the data so it can still be used and monetized?
How exactly do you trivially remove all references to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of the person posting?
This is the bar you'd have to clear to ensure someone's comment history were anonymized per GDPR, miss a single one of these factors and your anonymous data is now reversible and thus infringing.
By definition commenting reddit users are covered, even if they haven't posted anything otherwise identifying -- but most have either way.
*Looks up GDPR... "EU law"
Womp womp :(
There is also CCPA in California - but none of these offer a total blanket/shield of protection like people are positing here. It's still a completely grey area that has, so far, not sided with users of sites.
That's not what an "online identifier" is under GDPR. Those are RFID tags, cookies, device fingerprints, IP addresses, etc: https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-30/
Yes it is, as pointed out here https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/34112/Updated-Reddit-is-quietly-restoring-deleted-AND-overwritten-posts-and#entry-comment-140833 and here https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/34112/Updated-Reddit-is-quietly-restoring-deleted-AND-overwritten-posts-and#entry-comment-141285
These links are just going to the same post we are on? It's not linking to specific comments for me.
Looks like comment link redirection isn't quite working. Let me just copy over the comment text for now:
Well, people have reported Twitter for failing to remove their tweets and places like the ICO are now actively investigating Twitter over this failure, see https://www.wired.co.uk/article/delete-twitter-dms-gdpr
Someone posted not too long ago that a person who was part of Twitter’s group over the GDPR - pre Musk - said the lawyers came to the conclusion that tweets were protected under the GDPR.
I believe it's less straightforward than that. Under GDPR, consent can be withdrawn, you can't give an irrevokable consent.
And from https://mstdn.games/@chris/110553477682106144
Also, it looks like Twitter may be in some trouble, for failing to delete DMs under the GDPR, see https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/08/elon-musk-twitter-dm-deletion/
Surely, if twitter DMs fall under the GDPR, so do Reddit posts and comments (and note that it's the content of the DMs, and not the personal identifiers, and that the DMs are requested to be deleted from e.g. receipients inboxes as well).
There is nothing of fact here - as I said in my comments before and I'll say again - it's a case-by-case basis, but as it stands, this is not covered under GDPR. Everything you linked to is pending actual decisions, as this area of GDPR is still being figured out. Yet, for some reason, people are stating it as fact.
Interesting. So does that mean you think it COULD be covered by the GDPR, perhaps from a court decision at a future date? That at least it's a possibility, even if unknown right now?
Interesting contradiction. I'd say there only three states: it is covered, it is not covered, and it's unknown.
Anyways, here’s a fact:
Of course you’d be right if you said it hasn’t been taken to court yet and that particular case lacks a court ruling to back it up. So if that’s your requirement for it to count, then that’s fair. Still, I would generally go with the guidance from the ICO here rather than try my luck in court, absent compelling reasons.
I think the case by case thing is addressed somewhat from the Mastodon post. Someone reposting a meme wouldn’t contain any personal info to erase under GDPR, but another post that’s an ask me anything with a person’s picture and other verifiable credentials would be. In the latter case I’m not sure you could anonymize the content without making it unuseful and uninteresting.
And it would take a lot of time and effort to review every post and comment and perform the anonymization. And deanonymization is a legitimate concern too. So I guess Reddit could try to play hardball here but it would probably cost them.
lol what - just because a government entity says something, doesn't mean it's fact. You're grasping at straws and undermining actual fights for data privacy.
Care to elaborate? Let's assume for the sake of argument that I actually am wrong and mistaken on this point. How does one get from "being mistaken" to "undermining" ? As a major supporter of data privacy, I'd really like to know this.
I think I already addressed this earlier when I wrote,
Even so, the fact that multiple gov't entities charged with enforcing the GDPR seem to have come to the conclusion that failure to delete DMs is a violation of the GDPR is quite telling.
Perhaps they are wrong, and perhaps we won't know for sure until this makes it to the Court of Justice of the European Union / Supreme Court of the United Kingdom for the definitive ruling. It's true that gov't agencies do get it wrong from time to time.
Even so, I think that would be a tough and expensive fight that would give most folks pause. Both potentially illegal and against public opinion?
Perhaps it's possible you misunderstood me. The fact I was pointing out was that the ICO thought Twitter had a potential GDPR violation. But I can agree that it's not confirmed until the relevant courts rule on it - the fact is simply that this is what the ICO has said.
Hmm. So I've cited lots of things to explain why it looks like it's a likely GDPR violation. Can you cite for the opposite - why private DMs and Reddit posts (particularly text body contents) would not ever count?
To sum it up, I find it really interesting how you've not responded to the first question I had in the parent comment:
I get the impression that you're a hard no here, that you assume once this area of the GDPR is figured out, then it most definitely won't be covered. But, care to elaborate why you think this is the likely outcome?
That depends on the content of the post or comment, no?
If a user is commenting they have an online identifier and are thus covered. If a user has ever referenced their relationship status, location or any physical descriptor they are covered. The GDPR -- it applies.
That's not what an "online identifier" is under GDPR. Those are RFID tags, cookies, device fingerprints, IP addresses, etc: https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-30/
Usernames are online identifiers:
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/personal-information-what-is-it/what-is-personal-data/what-are-identifiers-and-related-factors/
For most people, GDPR probably applies to at least some of their comments on Reddit.
please don't state things if you don't know what you're talking about. it absolutely applies. it's a personalized account, with a personalized email address – this is the core of GDPR. it might not apply cause reddit is not within the legislation of the EU. maybe.
I do - I work with this daily. It would be a massive uphill battle to even prove in a court that your whole post history is considered "identifying". It's a case-by-base basis. On top of that, your data could still be easily stored and simply no longer associated with your email (but still can be kept if the previous cannot be proven about identification). Then this would have to be tested, on a that same case-by-case basis, for every single user that made a request.
To quote yourself, "please don't state things if you don't know what you're talking about."
ah ... simply no. also now you're going into technicalities and specific scenarios – which might make sense in court, yet doesn't disprove the principle per se. but maybe let's agree to disagree, i don't think this goes somewhere.
If they have eu users they have to apply it. That is why many places have ip lock outs that just prevent us from.seeing it.
However if they truly anonymise the content of a post they can keep it
Doesn't matter, they'll be fined and if they refuse to pay they'll not be allowed to operate in the EU
Can't be fined for GDPR if you aren't violating GDPR taps temple
Yes it is, as pointed out here https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/34112/Updated-Reddit-is-quietly-restoring-deleted-AND-overwritten-posts-and#entry-comment-140833 and here https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/34112/Updated-Reddit-is-quietly-restoring-deleted-AND-overwritten-posts-and#entry-comment-141285
And also see https://kbin.social/m/reddit@lemmy.ml/t/34167/Reddit-is-restoring-deleted-posts#entry-comment-141186
Certainly some of it can be.
While this is true, it's sort of like being in a car accident. The other person may be in the wrong, but that doesn't exactly unwreck your car.
Barbara Streisand ♫