UK Politics
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I don't think the benefits you suspect will be realised by this.
You also suggested productivity as a benefit. That's basically doing the same thing while hiring less people. Firstly, only useful for CEOs and not great for equality, secondly, what actual gains are even going to be from this? You can get on NHS or government stuff without a digital ID. There is no demonstrable way this will make the process any better. It'll only make it easier for the gov to survey it's population, and that's not something to celebrate.
Gun ownership isn't controversial in the US. It is unthinkable in the UK. Acceptance in one place does not justify acceptability here. I'd rather countries that give zero fucks about privacy aren't used to steamroll our rights here.
Productivity increase is the basis for all improvements in standards of life. Industrialisation was not "only useful for CEOs"; it brought millions out of poverty by lowering the amount of labour required to produce food and other basic necessities to the point where the poorest in society could still afford them. Doing the same thing while hiring fewer people means those people can do something else.
Commitment to equality is needed to ensure the benefits of productivity increases aren't only reaped by those already wealthy, but you will notice that neither China nor Russia decided that they'd better not industrialise so as to avoid the wealthy getting all the benefit; they recognised that the benefit could ideally be shared amongst the population.
You don't see the advantage in having a single thing which allows you, without filling in any ID forms or uploading/sending off any documents, to:
And besides that would open the way to having a uniform way to prove your age to buy alcohol and otherwise prove your identity in person. That is before you get to any of the advantages that do exist but which come from the requirement to have ID, such as having a way of reliably identifying people the police suspect of a crime. It's not the 18th century any more, and the power to require someone to tell you their name and address has the obvious problem that they can lie.
Maybe you haven't done any of these things recently, but filling out 3 years of address history and uploading 2 forms of ID for each new account for something with real-world significance gets old quickly. If you're older than 40 you might not have to do it much any more.
So this should inspire is to look to the US to see what the effects of gun ownership might be, rather than dogmatically sticking to our opposition to it. Of course, what we see there is mass shooting after mass shooting so we'd quite sensibly go "no thank you."
What do we see all over Western and Northern Europe? Are the population being ground under the bootheel of state surveillance made so much more effective by convenient and mandatory identification? No. But their health systems, government, banking systems and police don't have to spend nearly so much time and effort identifying people, because there's a uniform way of doing it.
I admire your optimism.
The things listed as advantages are what, 10 times in your entire life? I had no valid photo ID for over a decade. It was a hassle... maybe twice. For many things, who I am shouldn't even matter - or at least my face shouldn't. Of course, now you're not allowed to vote any more unless you bring an approved ID... so there is that.
On the other hand, what are some potential negative points of the enforced IDs?
I know some of these are slightly exaggerated overreaction, but I'm sure you get the point - however unlikely these exact situations are, there are similar ones which are very likely, in a few years. Maybe not the current government, but what do you think the Tories or UKIP would do with that power? These are just going to be used to oppress and destroy the lives of the poor, frightened and vulnerable.
Nobody asked for this. It wasn't in the election promises, it wasn't in the manifesto. Nobody voted for this. Nobody asked for this and nobody wants it. There's no mandate for it.
Your reply imagines a future in which id is simultaneously used for more things than in any country, and less secure than existing technology (it's not possible for example to clone digital id in current implementations, just like you can't clone a bank card off a contactless transaction)
So I don't think this is a case of me being optimistic.
And if you're pessimistic about all of this then that's not unreasonable, but framing it as absolute opposition is unreasonable. The objections you raised are for the most part entirely surmountable by a sensible implementation. Why not change your opposition to "we shouldn't have this until a concrete proposal is put forward which satisfied x y and z?"
Yes, I know what you mean, but this is not happening in isolation. This is happening in context with a bunch of other stuff - some of it is badly thought out Tory policies which are being enacted by the current government, and some of it is newly invented policies from the current government.
So if we think about it combined with their current crackdown on peace and environmental protest (potentially on its way to being outlawed entirely), enforced ID to access websites and (imminently) requirement to give the government access to your bank account to receive any benefits (including, of course, child benefit and disability benefits)... and suggestions about replacing all train tickets with GPS tracking your ID and location... these could all add up very quickly into a scenario as described. If they can explain how these definitely won't happen, maybe we're fine?
Also, agreed on the 'sensible implementation/concrete proposals' bit, but that's exactly what they're not doing, and there's no suggestion that that's been done in the past with anything recently, and no suggestion it will be done for this.
Are they consulting the EFF and similar? Are they consulting University Professors who are experts in their fields? Or are they consulting right-wing American surveillance companies?
There's no sensible assessment of how this would work, with thought, research, expert opinions etc - like the "ID for websites" thing - it was just pushed through by people who didn't understand how it would work.
I think this diagram explains it a bit clearer:
Basically, the most likely outcome is sadly that it will be shoddily implemented by morons and criminals, to make some right-wing twats more rich and powerful.
Truthfully, I hope I am over-reacting.
What has told you in the past... 20 years? That this government, or the previous government, is capable of doing anything that isnt just 100% to fuck us all over?
The other guy is right, no one asked for this. We did ask to drop the "child" safety act, and were ignored or worse, called paedos.
Here, Ill play your game. "We shouldnt have this until we have a government that works for the people, and not to service and fill the pockets of the already rich and abusive. And even then, it should be an option. Not a demand."
This is a continuation of the push, along with accessing our private messages, to control and monitor us all 24/7. Starmer is a right wing authoritarian masquerading as a left wing leader. And the end of the road he leads us down, will be one were we have no privacy. We wont even be allowed to protest this shit.
Thank you for spelling out exactly how I also feel about keir stasi's digital ID plans.
Similar shit is happening in the EU - travellers entering from outside the EU will be obliged to supply biometrics and fingerprints - to be permanently stored...for convenience for future entries or some such bs!