this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2025
366 points (99.2% liked)

History Memes

1041 readers
1400 users here now

A place to share history memes!

Rules:

  1. No sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, assorted bigotry, etc.

  2. No fascism (including tankies/red fash), atrocity denial or apologia, etc.

  3. Tag NSFW pics as NSFW.

  4. Follow all Piefed.social rules.

Banner courtesy of @setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world

founded 6 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] mech@feddit.org 42 points 1 day ago (2 children)

In the early 15th century (before the "discovery" of the Americas and the age of colonization), China had assembled a heavily militarized fleet that was likely bigger than all European powers' fleets combined. They used it to become the dominant maritime power of their time, bringing India, South Asia and Eastern Africa into their sphere of influence.
Then internal struggle and threats on their northern borders lead to a shift in policy and the fleet was recalled from further exploration to the west and dismantled - making Europe's naval expansion possible.

[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

To provide some context and a good book to read more on this:

Historian Louise Levathes, in When China Ruled the Seas (2008), argues that “the Ming voyages were primarily a diplomatic mission to incorporate Indian coastal states into the Chinese tributary system; the Sultan of Calicut and the ruler of Cochin accepted Chinese titles and protection in exchange for regular tribute and trade privileges (tax exemptions)”.

I wouldn't take this to mean that all or even the majority of India came under China's sphere of influence. The kingdoms of the Malabar coast acted as the gateway into India for over a millennia and were plutocratic hubs where foreign influence (Arab, European, African) was not uncommon.

In fact it was common for the kingdoms of the Malabar coast to pay tribute to multiple domestic and foreign polities to secure tax exemptions.

This was also the port through which significant trade occurred between India and the Roman Empire which led a prominent Roman (Pliny the Elder, writer of Naturalis Historia) to remark

‘It is quite surprising that the use of pepper has come so much into fashion,’ Pliny wrote, 'especially when you consider that in other substances which we use, it is sometimes their sweetness, and sometimes their appearance that has attracted our notice; whereas, pepper has nothing in it that can plead as a recommendation to either fruit or berry, its only desirable quality being a certain pungency; and yet it is for this that we import it all the way from India! Who, I wonder, was the first to make trial of it as an article of food?'

In confirmation of such grumbles, two south Indian dynasties, the Pandyas and the Cheras, went as far as sending embassies to Rome to discuss the balance-of-payments problem and the inability of the Romans to pay their various Indian debts.

Eighty per cent of the 478 recipes included in the Roman cookbook of Apicius included pepper, and it appears regularly even in the pudding section. It was still, however, an expensive treat. The Tamil and Sanskrit words for sugar, ginger, pepper, sandalwood, beryl, cotton and indigo all made their way into Latin, and hence to modern English: ‘pepper’ and ‘ginger’ are both loan words from Tamil – pipali and singabera respectively.

According to some recent calculations, customs taxes on trade with India may have generated as much as one-third of the entire income of the Roman exchequer.

(Source: The Golden Road by William Dalrymple)

The history of the Ming Treasure Fleet and Zhang He is absolutely fascinating and I will be reading more on it! If I may get on my soapbox, it is important for everyone to expose themselves to non Eurocentric historical narratives to arrive at a more complete and balanced worldview.

[–] finitebanjo@piefed.world 22 points 1 day ago

I feel like you kind of sang their praises there considering they barely accomplished anything and then outlawed fleets just in time for the age of exploration followed by a losing war and colonization by Japan, who for comparison had always maintained a strong navy until falling short of the west's canons and superior siege warfare tactics for a brief period. I kind of doubt China would have achieved much even if they had kept the boats around.