Cross-posted from "The ultimate centrist" by @corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net in !chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
These two things are the same 
this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2026
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The most common definition of a victim is someone who dies from a crime, and the word carries an underlying meaning of the harm coming from something not justified.
She wasn't killed because the police overreacted or because they are trained to shoot first, she was breaking through a barrier in pursuit of committing violence and had to be stopped. Previous non-lethal attempts to stop the violence were attempted, and she was part of a crowd that could overwhelm the security. Lethal violence was needed to defend lives and therefore she is not a victim.
This is not comparable to police overreacting with disproportionate violence.
I know I used the word crime above but I don't consider most laws morally legitimate so whether it was a crime or not is barely relevant.
I don't think it's wrong to describe someone who was killed by another person as a victim. Even if they were guilty of horrible crimes.
This is a conversation I've had several times. I think it's very strange that so many leftists claim to want to dismantle our justice system but endorse the same punitive logic behind it. Maybe it was necessary to kill Ashlee Babbitt, frankly, I don't know all the details. But she was killed by the police and that makes her a victim in my mind nonetheless. Killing someone is always a bad thing. Sometimes it's just the least bad thing you can do.
Good to see some actual nuanced leftist takes even if they are being heavily downvoted.
Lemmings love the downvote button way too much for some reason so I try not to worry too much about it anymore.