Controversial - the place to discuss controversial topics

I believe you’re responding to an argument I didn’t quite make.

I wasn’t saying “any external change = validation.” I was talking specifically about physiological body modification done to fit in or ‘pass’ … that’s a much narrower category than general self-expression via…

Ah, that's my bad, i read it as all body mods are external validation driven.

Clothes, hairstyles, accessories, etc. aren’t comparable. Those are temporary, low-stakes, and reversible. I’m talking about chronic physical changes to the body.

Stakes are relative in this case, just because you care about the permanence or reversibility of a modification doesn't mean others do.

but yeah, it's not an exact match.

And even then, I didn’t claim external validation is the only reason, but just that it’s a common psychological driver in some cases. So no, the logic doesn’t expand to “everything non-functional.” That’s a mischaracterization.

see above

On the “God’s design” point, you’re also stretching it into areas I wasn’t talking about. Medical interventions like glasses, mobility aids, or corrective surgery (like cleft lip repair) are about restoring function or alleviating harm.

This we'll have to disagree on, unless you have a convincing way of explaining why we can't improve on gods design with stylistic choices, but medical intervention is ok.

I realise how that sounds (to me at least) but your phrasing didn't leave any leeway in that it didn't really specify what about gods design could possibly be improved upon.

It also gets into conversation about what exactly constitutes harm, psychological harm exists and can be just as devastating as physical harm.

Not to mention that psychological harm can cause physical harm, i don't mean self-harm (though that's a thing also) i mean detrimental physiological changes brought about by negative psychological pressure.

My counter would be the opposite. And this is really the core. If cleft lips became a fad and people willingly cleft their own lips when they were normal before. That’s insane, IMO. That’s jumping off the cliff because Bobby Jones did.

My answer to this would be contingent upon your answer to "what about god's design is possible for us to improve upon?".

If you want to challenge the position, that’s fine, but it should be the position I actually stated, not a broader version of it.

That's fair, though as i said your position was unclear in that the statement seems to be an absolute with no specification as to boundaries.

I did go back and adjust my statement to ask a question around boundaries in the original reply, I’m not sure if you replied before or after this.

If you don't mind giving me some clarification on where those boundaries exist i can be more specific.