this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
753 points (98.6% liked)

Linux

48072 readers
1 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
nooter692@lemmy.ml
MarcellusDrum@lemmy.ml
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml
cyclohexane@lemmy.ml
d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz
753
Linux 6.6 To Better Protect Against The Illicit Behavior Of NVIDIA's Proprietary Driver (www.phoronix.com)
submitted 2 years ago by pnutzh4x0r@lemmy.ndlug.org to c/linux@lemmy.ml
142 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Luis Chamberlain sent out the modules changes today for the Linux 6.6 merge window. Most notable with the modules update is a change that better builds up the defenses against NVIDIA's proprietary kernel driver from using GPL-only symbols. Or in other words, bits that only true open-source drivers should be utilizing and not proprietary kernel drivers like NVIDIA's default Linux driver in respecting the original kernel code author's intent.

Back in 2020 when the original defense was added, NVIDIA recommended avoiding the Linux 5.9 for the time being. They ended up having a supported driver several weeks later. It will be interesting to see this time how long Linux 6.6+ thwarts their kernel driver.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] intelati@programming.dev 74 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Riddle me this, why is there such a thing as proprietary drivers for anything? Especially consumer facing products like this?

Don't you want anyone and anything using your product in any situation? Help me understand NVIDIA's bit with this?

[–] eltimablo@kbin.social 74 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Driver code might expose some underlying secret sauce they're using in the hardware. That's the justification they always used to give, at any rate. At this point, though, it's probably some code they've inherited from an acquisition that has a bunch of legal encumbrance stopping it from being open sources.

[–] apt_install_coffee@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Likely a combination of 4 things:

  1. They have third party firmware in their blobs that they are under NDA regarding the source code.

  2. They believe in the source code is a large part of their success and don't want to reveal it.

  3. They believe giving out the source code will allow many inferior variants of the software, impacting their brand.

  4. Control; the more source code they have in mesa the more of their code can be rejected by mesa. Keeping their stuff as blobs allows them to put in whatever hacks they want.

[–] uis@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

  1. They can open their code without merging into mesa

  2. They don't want you to use "old" GPUs

[–] apt_install_coffee@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sure but why open their code without getting the integration benefits?

[–] uis@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)
  1. Getting to use GPL-only symbols
  2. Still much easier for distros
  3. Example of drivers

And again we are talling about code not being rejected as main goal.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 11 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I assume nVidia have licensed other code that they don't have the rights to distribute the source code for.

I get what the GPL fans want here, but it's just going to lead to a gimped driver, no driver, or an even larger shim between the open and closed source bits. The Linux market is too small for nVidia to care.

[–] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

All ml, ai, hpc is done on Linux. They are getting a lot of money because of the hype.

They need Linux drivers. No way hpc can be done on windows. But it can be done on amd

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They don't have to offer Linux drivers for free to the general public though. Ask yourself why they do that.

[–] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The problem is not mine. Is theirs. They want to use functionality written by others with certain requirements (i.e. that using that code requires disclosing the source code).

If they are not happy with that, that's fine. They shouldn't use those functionalities.

Problem is that they depends on Linux kernel for their biggest business (data centers). If they don't support linux, market will shift to amd. As ML user, I am absolutely fine. I can use amd for our gpu cluster. I absolutely cannot use a non linux OS.

That's their problem, not linux maintainers' problem

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

With GPUs being used for AI stuff and all sane people using Linux for servers, no, Linux market isn't small at all for Nvidia.

[–] BURN@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

That’s all I see happening too. The Nvidia Linux drivers will just get worse and not solve anything.

It’s already a huge pain in the ass to use the proprietary drivers, the open source ones barely work as is.

[–] uis@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

The Linux market is too small for nVidia to care

I'll fix it for you: "The Linux gaming market"

Linux AI market is their bread, butter and red caviar. Shim itself is enough proof they care.

[–] luckystarr@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

They don't want you to see the "if benchmark_xyz { do less work }" blocks of code.