this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
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[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 159 points 2 years ago (52 children)

Back in 3rd Edition D&D there was a spell called "Holy Word" that could kill non-good creatures within a 40 foot radius of the caster, if the caster was sufficiently high level relative to the creatures. Good creatures were completely unaffected.

When tightly packed you can fit about 2000 people into a 40-foot-radius circle (total area is 5000 square feet). So one casting can deal with the population of a good-sized town. My gaming group speculated for a while about a society where it was a routine ritual to round up all the peasantry and nuke them with Holy Word to keep the population clear of evil. Never incorporated it into any campaigns, though. It's a bit of a sticky philosophical puzzler.

[–] d20bard@ttrpg.network 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Another aspect of the puzzle is that not every evil deserves death. A bum who does minor theft almost as a habit, a hateful bitter man who antagonizes everyone but obeys the law, a teenager, a greedy business person who employs half the town but makes everyone's life a bit worse, and so on.

Good should have the self restraint to not go straight to murder.

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

a hateful bitter man who antagonizes everyone but obeys the law

As one of those hateful bitter people in the eyes of others who still is lawful, I emphatically tell you that we are evil and absolutely would and should be killed by Holy Word and other such spells.

a teenager

Wait, what?

Actually everyone on your list should be killed by that spell, even the teenager though I vehemently disagree with that.

Like you can sit there and quibble about what is actually evil or not but this is magic, and what matters is what the majority of people consider evil, and they all hit the mark. Most adults are ageist bigots who'd wipe out all teenagers on a dime if they could, for example, even though that's pretty evil.

Good and evil are honestly pretty meaningless.

[–] Knightfox@lemmy.one 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That's what he's saying, the spell can't discern between the mass murderer and the lowly thief, the user of that spell should have the restraint to not jump straight murder. Not all evil beings deserve death.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Did you seriously say a bum who commits a minor theft deserves the death penalty? Or should I have more coffee?

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Having used to be that bum, yes, I can say emphatically what they're doing is evil by conventional standards. I agree wholeheartedly with what they do, but that doesn't change the fact that it's evil and by that game's standards they should die.

Items like that go by the standards established in the game and that means that homeless dude is gonna die. Conventional western morals dictate he be jailed, at least, and most Americans do want people like that exterminated because they dehumanize the homeless. Even restorative justice types don't actually view or treat homeless people like humans let alone peers. Homeless populations are pretty universally reviled, and as good and evil always boil down to our feelings and popularity contests, that's what makes them evil in the eyes of others.

I am not agreeing with the notion, just saying what it is. Personally I think humanity is inherently evil so all humans should die from such an item or a spell. But no one would take my opinion into account so this morality-is-relative crap people are pulling to dispute the veracity of the sword doesn't hold water either.

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