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US intelligence report alleging Russia election interference shared with 100 countries
(www.reuters.com)
this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
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Probably when they also do something about US meddling... which is never.
This isn’t the place for whataboutism.
The US has done countless shitty things over the years, and more than its fair share during the Cold War, but it is not (currently) an authoritarian country that is making a broad and global propaganda and covert services push towards populist authoritarians and away from democratic norms in as many countries as possible. Russia is doing that now, and has been doing that since they got their feet back under themselves a bit in the late 90s.
I'd rather live in the US if I were forced go choose. But the US is essentially a police state. Also, you may want to rethink what the us gov and their shadow entities actually do:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
Lol if you think the US is a true police state, then you have no clue what an actual police state is. In a real police state, you are disappeared almost immediately for critical statements about your government. While that can and does happen in the US on occasion, try that shit in North Korea or Myanmar or China. Be thankful you are allowed to have a dissenting opinion of the government, because there are actual police states in the world that will scoop you up if there's even a hint of dissent.
We don't have secret police, we call them undercover agents.
Please tell the Black Lives Matters protestors who were routinely beaten to the curb and tear gassed for expressing a first amendment "right" that they aren't under surveillance.
Please tell the Portland protestors who were kidnapped by Trump-led federal agents they are living in a normal country.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/04/bob-casey/sen-bob-casey-said-federal-agents-kidnapped-protes/
I'm sure Snowden is thankful he's able to live freely after exposing that an international spying agreement was gone, and didn't have to go into hiding. Same for Chelsea Manning who 100% wasn't put into solitary confinement and forbidden to talk to the public.
If revealing the truth that your government is committing crimes is punished, you are being ruled by criminals.
Dude I'm not denying any of those are fucked up and outside of what our constitution provides for under freedom of speech, assembly, and press (many reporters were also arrested and had their footage destroyed). My point is that, despite these absolute abominations by the ruling class, the average person does not live under a constant state of surveillance and oppression in the same way that those in N Korea, Myanmar, Russia, China, etc do. Sure all of our online activity, communications, and movements are monitored, at least passively in a database, but unless we are actively causing major amounts of trouble we likely won't have the good squad breaking down our doors and hauling us off for saying "fuck the government" online. It could be so, so much worse (and quite possibly could get there in our lifetimes, if we keep being apathetic about the state of our country).
My guy what are you doing in your comment exactly? You're pointing out illegal acts by the government. Do you expect punishment to come soon? Consider how often you've criticized the US, and how often you've been arrested or fined or disappeared for that criticism.
The examples you mentioned aren't the norm -- and that's precisely why we discuss them. If it were the norm we wouldn't pay any attention to them. They're only newsworthy because government suppression of our speech is news. It isn't a common occurrence.
To compare authoritarianism in the US to the rest of the world is absolute peanuts. People constantly complain about the government and make fun of officials. We could insult Trump to our heart's content in 2016-2020, but are you aware of a single Chinese person who joked about Xi being Winnie the Pooh in that time period?
Let's put it this way, if you can complain about how bad your government is without worries of reprisal, your country isn't as bad as you may think.
Being allowed to complain about your country doesn't make it not authoritarian. What exactly is "free" about being charged with treason over releasing proof your country committed war crimes?
You have no idea whether Chinese people can openly complain about Xi, you are literally just repeating propaganda you heard uncritically. If not, provide a source.
As an American, you have been a victim of our countries propaganda your entire life, even more so since 9/11. Go research literally any bad thing america did in the last 70 years, the hard and fast truth, and look at it as though a country in the middle east had done them. Then compare that to both contemporary and recent coverage of the event, as well as contemporary and recent coverage of a similar event that did happen in the middle east or Russia or China or wherever. Try to explain why the media doesn't care when America does it, but goes ballistic when a socialist country or a country with oil does it.
I just want to say that you are laying out the facts perfectly. Like yeah of course the US has problems, but I can publicly walk around Washington DC saying "Fuck Joe Biden, He looks like an old emaciated Piglet" and have no fear of political retribution.
Freedom of speech is something we still generally have.
Thanks! I appreciate it
The US is absolutely making global propaganda. What do you think CNN, FOX, and MSNBC are? The fake news media is actively trying to kill democracy, 8n service of their oligarch owners.
Who in their right mind is watching CNN, Fox or MSNBC outside of Americans?
Nobody, that is who.
It doesn't matter, America's media reach is massive, and Americans uncritically parrot the BS they hear on them. Joe Biden uncritically parrots it, as did trump. And a shit ton of people are listening to both those guys.
Crying whataboutism is just a lame attempt to deflect attention from hypocrisy and bullshit.
Where is the place for whataboutism then? Never? When a narrative is being pushed in the media that is hypocritical, should we just accept it? People seem to think anyone critical of America is defending Russia/China or another country. I think it’s downright UN-American and negligent to never try to make the country you reside in live up to the standards it puts forth.
Whataboutism is like false choice and straw man combined. Not only is the suggestion that one needs to choose between being critical of Russia or US, that it's either/or, but you're also then implying that the person you're replying to is making an argument in support of one of the things. That they can't possibly believe both things to be bad.
They are only talking about one BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT.
It's fallacious, so yes, its time is never.
Yes, never is the correct answer. It's cheap, obvious and condescending as fuck as well as being a total waste of time. The correct thing to do with whataboutism is to call it out and then ignore. Like what I am doing with you right now.
You have a different definition of ignore than I do.