this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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What kind of weird opposite shit is this? Liberals? Liberals tend to be criticizing Israel and decrying civilian deaths and criticizing Israel, while conservatives are supporting the (far-right) govt. of Israel.
There are some on the far far left who get their jollies by referring to everyone who isn’t an actual communist as a “liberal.” There’s a whole ecosystem of memes decrying shit that right-wingers are responsible for and blaming it on “liberals.”
My guess is that they’re making a distinction between communism and classical liberalism.
Yes, the people who call themselves leftists or communists (on lemmy for instance) often use 'liberal' to mean Classic Liberal or Neoliberal, which basically means free-market capitalist. That's the definition used in Europe. It's confusing because it is not at all what we mean in the US. Though Democratic Party politicians are definitely mostly capitalist, we use Liberal to refer to being left on social issues in particular, and sometimes also economics.
Almost like the left and right have both simultaneously and unassisted have targeted them
Basic capitalism is not negotiable in mainstream US politics. The only choices are what services the government will provide, exactly how far we let corporations roll over us, foreign policy, whether or not to be a theocracy and social issues.
Marx and Engels are very insistent that liberalism is a tool of the bourgeois.
Although, I think more often than not defining anything short of hardcore central control to achieve some notion of socialism, probably scientific because utopian is naive and fucking libs blah blah, is just used by crypto fascists to give their violent bigoted authoritarian tendencies an aire of legitimacy. Pretty much what the Bolsheviks did to turn the initial revolution into a fascist cesspit.
Lenin was. Marx was a bit more complex on the subject https://jacobin.com/2020/10/karl-marx-liberalism-rights-igor-shoikhedbrod-review
Thanks for the informative article.
What the is a crypto fascist lmao
The distinction is silly anyway. Classical liberals like John Stuart Mill called for communism.
The joke doesn't work and the comic sucks in general. News at 10.
It changed. A few years ago people were scared to talk about Israel. This comic would have applied. But now it's different, something happened and you can talk about Israel all you want now and there will just be a couple people complaining. And those people will speak as vaguely as possible and dodge any questions about what country they're from.
Probably the thing that changed is that they turned Gaza into a concentration camp and are now committing genocide.
That's not exactly a new thing though. They've always been an apartheid ethnostate taking steps to erode Palestine bit by bit. What would you think of someone criticizing Israel in 2021?
You sure about that?
Yes, I'm quite sure. Democrats in office don't fully represent their constituents and are not all really liberals. I'm speaking based off my experience with what your cartoon references, which is 'liberals online'.
Oh, classic liberalism? Many today equate liberal with neoliberal.
Neoliberalism is a reboot of Classic Liberalism, from what I understand. I mean social/maybe-medium-economic leftists in the sense the term is used in politics in the US currently. That is, people who oppose racism, colonialism, sexism, are pro-LGBT but are perhaps socialist economically but rarely communist.
I don’t think they oppose colonialism.
The political side who renamed Columbus Day Indigenous Peoples Day?
Democrats seem to be okay with this.
Again, are you talking about national Democratic politicians like Nancy Pelosi or American liberals like AOC?
This video by Red Pen might give some insight.
Edit: per Red Pen-
Dude. That’s talking about Classical/Neo Liberalism. Not American Liberalism.
What is American Liberalism?
What we call liberals in the US, meaning the US opposite of conservatives. It has nothing to do with Classic or Neoliberalism. I described it briefly earlier. US liberals are pro-union, want socialized healthcare, oppose foreign wars, want to reduce military spending, are pro-environment, favor restrictions on polluting industries, freedom from religion in government, prefer public services to privatized for-profit, support pro-consumer regulations on industries, would like wealthy people to pay fair taxes and support racial and LGBT social equality. These are all things that conservatives in the US disagree with.
Left Liberalism or Social Liberalism. Call it whatever you want, but to an actual leftist (Marxist socialist), it’s all liberalism. To them, if it doesn’t get rid of private property that reinforces wealth inequality through social hierarchy, it’s part of the problem.
Cool viewpoint, I never heard that before! That’s great, have fun on Hexbear and lemmygrad or whatever, but this awful meme is ambiguous, difficult to interpret and incorrect from a US standpoint.
I didn’t mean to offend. Just trying to give you a perspective from those on the far left. Give actual libertarianism a look. You might be surprised.
I've decided I don't care about any political group that insists anyone outside of it is equally bad.