this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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GenZedong

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Poll: 43% of Ukrainains believe that nazism is widespread in Ukraine (some are probably nazis themselves though) (lemmygrad.ml)
submitted 2 years ago by FamousPlan101@lemmygrad.ml to c/genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
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[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 58 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

spongebob-i-fucking-love I FUCKING LOVE OPINION POLLS ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT VERIFIABLE FACTS ABOUT THE WORLD

Who even ran this poll? Whoever it is decided to ask the question in the negative which already makes it seem like a push poll. This is a country that had an establishment called "Bandera Burger" before they even banned all non-nazi aligned political parties and gave the nazi a national holiday. The actual answer to the question isn't a matter of opinion.

[–] immuredanchorite@hexbear.net 34 points 2 years ago (2 children)

idk, i mean, you are right... but 43% of the country believing that nazi ideology is rampant is a pretty searing indictment of the other ~57% of the country.

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 2 years ago

And a good chunk of those that acknowledge how rampant Nazi ideology is consider it a good thing.

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

43% of the recipients they asked. Not the country. That’s not how opinion studies work.

I’m guessing they asked a thousand people maximum. Out of a country of 35-43 million people.

[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Statistics is not intuitive and weird. If the population of people asked were randomly chosen in a representative manner, then 1 thousand people is definitely enough for an accurate reading for a country of 40 million people

You only need 1068 people to achieve a 95% confidence interval (95% of answers are expected to be the same if you redid the survey, also the industry standard to achieve) and 3% margins of error for a population of 40 million

Play around with the calculator a little bit and you'll find something interesting. 2400 people are needed for a 95% interval of the population of USA (300 million). However, if you increase that population size from 300 million into even dozens of billions, the sample size required to achieve 95% confidence increases slower and slower to the point where it's almost useless to increase your sample size past a few thousand

https://www.checkmarket.com/sample-size-calculator/

[–] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago

That is correct, but it's always important to make sure the "randomly chosen" bit is close to true, which is usually true (and verifiable if the methodology is accessible) in electoral polls and such, but I would hazard a guess that this is not as obviously the case in a country having a civil war, specially with an agency that goes out of its way to call one of the positions as "Russian propaganda." Their overview on methodology doesn't mention in which regions the polling was made and their (google doc) source is in Ukrainian/Russian and I can't read that.

But yeah, in general people are often too quick to dismiss surveys because of sample sizes that are unintuitively small.

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago

Yes, but at the same time that’s mathematical statistics. You still have to contend with countless types of biases that skew results in plenty of ways.

Where did they get these people from? The Donbas or Kiev? I’m sure they would have different answers. What ages are the participants? What are their previous political affiliations? Why did they remain in the country when millions of other fled?

Not to mention the biases of the information taker, as those can be nefariously purposeful, or also accidental.

Getting statistics to be as clean as they are in the math will always be next to impossible.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sure, but assuming the study was properly conducted then they got a random sample which should be statistically representative of the overall population.

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Properly is the key word here.

Something in me doubts that a country in an active state of war with an information blackout, air and missile attack, severed telecommunications, curfews, strong emotional attachments, etc is going to create a good sample.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago

I do imagine polling in a place like Ukraine is difficult, but also it's not like nazis are hiding themselves there either. It's become a meme at this point that western media can't find a single soldier to interview who's not covered in nazi paraphernalia.

[–] immuredanchorite@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

I mean, you are right. I didn’t really interrogate the survey, but if they were using an appropriate sample size and were able to eliminate big variable with their collection method… it should be significant enough to reflect the larger population… All of that seems unlikely anyway in a country that is in a civil war.. Did they ask people in the Donbas? Did people fighting on the front lines get asked? (or would anyone even answer a survey like this from a combat zone?) Did they ask people outside of Lviv?

I just think that it is likely that is 430 people out of 1000 said they thought nazi ideology was prevalent than it probably is

[–] GarbageShootAlt@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 2 years ago

Whoever it is decided to ask the question in the negative which already makes it seem like a push poll.

Survey questions should be reversible anyway

[–] FamousPlan101@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Also the fact that they had options range from -3 ---> 3 is kind of annoying. Like anyone who voted +1 could still believe that Nazism is a threat. Neutral ratings are also concerning, it's like saying nazism in Ukraine is a 4/7.

[–] LesbianLiberty@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What's the source?