this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2023
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Reddit Migration

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### About Community Tracking and helping #redditmigration to Kbin and the Fediverse. Say hello to the decentralized and open future. To see latest reeddit blackout info, see here: https://reddark.untone.uk/

founded 2 years ago
 

Interested in getting a feel for what people may be likely to do IF reddit reverses their decision regarding API access, or reduces access fees to a reasonable level and 3rd party apps remain sustainable.

While I know the chances of this are extreeeemely slim, until 1st July there is an ever so slight chance this could still happen.

From my perspective, the community harm is done, and those who have left prior to July 1 have left due to principles, not because their app stopped working. As such, I'd be inclined to think most of those migrators would stay here in the fediverse.

But would we see a mass exodus back to reddit if the changes were undone? It's easy to say no, but if it went back to operations as relatively normal, it may be easy to justify going back for some users.

I'd like to think I wouldn't go back. I've deleted content and account from reddit. I'll be happy here so long as there is enough userbase for some discussion.

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[–] athos77@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

For me, it's not just that they screwed up the API changes, it's that they've repeatedly kept doubling down since then.

It's also ... I keep thinking back to Ellen Pao. They brought her in knowing that they wanted her to get rid of FPH and Victoria, knowing that at least the FPH thing was going to make her a target of the misogynistic GamerGate haters and bringing in a woman anyway, and they deliberately and repeatedly refused to give her any public support. It was completely reprehensible, and they cheerfully scapegoated her and kicked her to the curb when it was done.

As bad as that was, I also see elements of the same thing happening here, where this is a highly unpopular change, and there's no one else from reddit speaking up to support spez. I think they're going to have him force through the changes and then kick him to the curb like they did Ellen. They're not going to reverse any of the changes - it's what they want, after all, but they're going to let spez take all the heat and go on their merry way completely unphased.

To be completely honest, I think spez deserves this: his job as CEO is to have vision, manage public relations, and handle crises, and he's miserably failed at all of those. He misunderstood reddit's most valuable assets (it's commentary and the large group of people contributing and moderating the site for free), and he literally paid the API fees for some very profitable and potentially profitable companies to suck every piece of data from reddit; then he publicly targeted small publishers who enhance reddit instead of presenting them as collateral damage of the AI wars (I suspect to avoid bringing attention to his incredible lack of vision in letting everyone freely harvest data for their own lucrative products). And he's clearly failing in the PR and managing crises front as well. But I truly believe that everyone at reddit is perfectly happy to let spez do this thing that they want done, and then they'll throw him away when it's done in an attempt to appease the users.

Anyway, your question is "what will I do if reddit undoes the API changes". Given my beliefs, I simply don't see how I could possibly trust reddit management ever again. And trust is a really big thing with me; I don't think I could ever go back.

Unless you're reddit management, here to gauge user temperament, in which case I will totally return if the API changes are undone, yes, of course I will, just trust me!

[–] islandmonkeee@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Yeah, not a healthy working team there exactly.

[–] dedale@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Reddit was unusable way before the last scandal. Main problems being arbitrary, opaque moderation, astroturfing, low-effort posts, bots, general meanness and negativity.
It got to the point where it felt like you were more likely to interact with a bot or a propagandist than a normal human being.
Reddit is an advertising platform masquerading as social media.
It'll probably happen here too, but it might take a while.

[–] jacktherippah@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Meh. I'm staying here. Reddit has been getting worse. The future should be federated, not centralized, so hopefully that stuff Reddit just did has very little chance of happening again.

[–] rememberence@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't want to go back. I miss my subreddit - hell let's be honest, I miss /Reddit/ - but... Seeing how spez has acted and treated... /everyone/...

Like... We used the site, we provided the content, and the conversations, and the knowledge, the info, the jokes, the memes... That was all us. And it's like... I dunno he wants to eat his cake and have it to. He wants us there both for the content we provide as well as to monetize us and in a way I get it but it's like... ... When reddit was just the background... "the background" you didn't really think about it so much, you know? But it's like when Elon took over Twitter suddenly it's not just "Twitter" in the background it's now "Elon musks Twitter" and it's front and center and sleezy and scuzzy and you just want to not be a part of it anymore.

That feels like reddit now. Like how spez has been acting just makes it all feel dirty and horrible.

And I /miss/ reddit, I miss my subreddits. I miss googling any random idea and aphending reddit to the end of it and not even thinking about if it would show up on there because you just knew it would. Like it wasn't even a question... And I /miss/ that. So much. ... But it's like... /tainted/ now. I hate seeing reddit results from Google searches now.

And learning about how federation works reminds me of reading shadow run back in the day and how the matrix worked there with little nodes of info all talking to each other. In a way, then, the fediverse, to /me/, feels like the future...

So I'm willing to stay here and wait for it to grow and comment a little more than I ever did on reddit. Because I don't want to go back. And I don't think we should.

[–] CheshireSnake@iusearchlinux.fyi 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Bring your subs here. I'm sure you'll find new subscribers in lemmy/kbin. We're still growing so it might not be immediate, but I'm confident that as the fediverse matures and it gets simpler for people more will come. :)

I'm staying. The community has been nothing short of amazing. I don't get stressed when commenting or discussing things with people unlike reddit where a lot of interactions (not all, of course) are directly or indirectly motivated by karma.

Hell,I'd never have commented this if I were on reddit for fear of someone coming along and debating what I've said. Lol.

[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That's something I noticed on Reddit too. Half of everyone's existence there seems to be just for going fishing for possible arguments to get into.

[–] CheshireSnake@iusearchlinux.fyi 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah. Most of my comments ended with arguing with someone so I started commenting less and less. Ended up a lurker. It's very different here.

[–] Nougat@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'll fight you if it makes you feel nostalgic.

[–] abff08f4813c@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Bridges got burned. Not possible for myself to go back at this point.

[–] envis10n@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago

The damage is done. The administration at Reddit has shown they will do whatever it takes to stamp out dissent... except for actually listen to the users.

[–] Cloudless@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Reddit has clearly shown their priorities. If they change the policies now, they only do it for the money, not for the users.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 0 points 2 years ago

Lmao even if it weren't just no out of principle, after spez's comments about how Twitter under Elon is a model for Reddit to look to - why would I waste an ounce of energy on such a platform?

[–] 0Xero0@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Imagine if your partner is abusive as fuck and took advantage of you for years, and you managed to go away from them, then they stop being abusive and say they won't be like that again, How can you be sure that they'll stay that way? What keeps them from acting like a total piece of shit again?

[–] doleo@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 0 points 2 years ago

This is so far that they cannot back off anymore, they know it, users know it, their investors know it

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

oh that boat has so sailed.

[–] asjmcguire@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

I don't see that a reversal at this point would be any different to Twitter suddenly becoming usable again. The damage has already been done, it can't be reversed. Even with a pinky swear that Reddit will never pull this shit again, the trust is gone. Just like with Twitter - Elon could f*** off to Mars tomorrow, but the next person to step in and run Twitter could be just as bad, or worse. And both companies can implement any changes they like at any time with zero worry about what happens to the users. Thus - it's the wake-up call we all needed, that someone else's platform is really someone else's platform - regardless of how long we have had a home there. It's time for own platform, a community run platform.

[–] CrystalEYE@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Does not matter if they revert the changes or not at this point. I found a new home here and will keep using it.
I will still keep my reddit-Account and do the same as with my FB-account: Visit the site once a month to check up on the one or two communities that unfortunately stayed there.

[–] Eggyhead@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

I’ll live here, but I might poke into Reddit for the more obscure communities that can’t really survive a migration. Reddit knows what it wants and even if it fails this time, they’ll get sly with it and push more and more until they’re satisfied.

The biggest news is going to make it over here at this point anyway.

[–] BBKuma@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

I might end up on Reddit when googling for answers but I wouldn't go back full time. It has been very clear from the past few days that spez and co are not to be trusted. I like kbin a lot, I feel adults are having actual mature conversations instead of the insult matches that happen on Reddit. And I have contributed here more than I have in the 10 years of using Reddit.

[–] Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago

In my case? Nothing. They thoroughly burned that bridge. They would have to rebuild it, and merely returning to the status quo after showing their hand isn't enough.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 years ago

Can Reddit also un-slander the 3pa devs?

[–] JunkMilesDavis@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Imagine we're at the point where the Titanic has split in two, and the remaining portion is held afloat by trapped air. You can patch the hole made by the iceberg, but it probably won't change my plans too much.

[–] LoamImprovement@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

After Steve's behavior and treatment of the mods and developers, I wouldn't go back if they paid me. Even in the best case scenarios, they can't undo the damage that's already been done.

[–] theparadox@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

I want to avoid enshitification, and enshitification is more or less the ultimate goal of those who own reddit. This isn't the first time they've tried to extract value from the site with utter disregard for users and moderators. If they didn't get their way this time, they'll just try again later. Perhaps more politely or more slowly, but the writing is on the wall. Has been for a while.

[–] TheMightyBlu@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Reddit has been so transparently awful in handling this whole situation that I wouldn't go back. I can only imagine something similar would happen again not too far in the future anyway, regardless if they were to reverse their decision with the API.

[–] Onii-Chan@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

They could abandon their plans, apologize and then give everyone a cute puppy as a sorry, and I still wouldn't go back. Spez and his group of admins have shown their true colors, and it's because of them that I refuse to ever rejoin. Their actions this past week have been downright dictatorial, engaging in doublethink, hyperbole and creating rules when it benefits them despite no prior communication with the communities they've steamrolled by force.

As someone who recently had a 12 year old account, reddit and Spez can go fuck themselves.

[–] Doll_Tow_Jet-ski@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think everyone reading this from kbin or lemmy left out of principle, so they should also stay away from reddit out of principle.

[–] NightOwl@lemmy.one 1 points 2 years ago

Or at least try to. I haven't been able to cut myself off from it and set up RSS feeds for subs buildapcsales and gamedeals

http://teddit.net/r/buildapcsales/?api&type=rss

http://teddit.net/r/gamedeals/?api&type=rss

To use with feedly. Also, found a lemmy instance called https://lemmit.online/c/requests that will pull content from a subreddit to lemmy and set up gamedeals, but didn't have luck with buildapcsales

But, days of accounts is done. I don't want to provide direct data to them anymore.

[–] nyoom@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

To be fair, there are some people who are here because they had their fill of John Oliver's sexy pictures.

edit: To clarify, I left out of principle just like what @Doll_Tow_Jet-ski said. Doesn't mean my statement is untrue or that it's inherently a bad thing that it's not all idealistic exredditors using lemmy/kbin. It only means the John Oliver stuff is actually working and drove some people out of Reddit.

[–] PotjiePig@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I dunno man. That was the first thing that made me actually want to go back. That and the butthole. I definitely regretted the butthole. Not sure what I was expecting. It was a butthole.

[–] Doll_Tow_Jet-ski@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm afraid to ask but... what was that about the butthole? I haven't been to Reddit since the 12th

[–] PotjiePig@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Interestingasfuck went nuclear and decided to allow NSFW content and essentially stop moderating, some dad posted that if he got enough upvotes he would post hi hairy butthole, which made it to the front page of r/all where it hovered and winked at world for a while.

[–] Doll_Tow_Jet-ski@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Omg, I'm happy that happened, and happy I didn't actually see it

[–] ulu_mulu@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I'll stay here, I don't tolerate being treated like sh*it as they did, it's totally unacceptable. Even if they apologized, they shown their true colors, we know they would be lying.

I came here a couple of weeks ago and since then I did my best to be involved in lemmy communities so as to not miss reddit, and you know what? It worked :)

I'm not deleting my account because I want my data first (sent a GDPR request), but I don't really care anymore about what they do, nor I care about reddit as a platform, engagement here is much higher quality.

Still following news because it's entertaining, I love how the community got creative with the protest.

[–] polygon@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

At this point it's not even about the API changes anymore. Spez would need to be replaced to even consider it. He's shown what he thinks of the community, he's made a tour of all the tech news sites outright lying and misrepresenting how users feel, he's killed several small businesses for app developers, and is currently authorizing the removal of entire teams of mods (and locking their accounts).

All of the problems with Reddit start at the top. No band-aids are going to fix that problem. Spez is the disease, and Reddit is the rot that follows. Twitter can never recover under Elon, and Reddit will continue to decline under Spez.

I'm out. If any Lemmy/kbin admin pulls some shit like Elon or Spez, you just move to another instance. I'm done with the Silicon Valley style "burn it down for the payday" mind set because VC firms have the CEO by the balls.

[–] Beardedsausag3@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

With my extremely limited, northern England born n bred vocabulary - fucken could not have said it any better. +1

[–] auhu@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

I am willing to die for "fucken" to replace "fucking" in the dictionary

[–] CtrlAltDelicious@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I never really cared that much for the API. I just didn’t like the company and how its CEO behaved, and I truly enjoy watching fediverse taking off so here I am.

[–] Untitled9999@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

This is the same as me. When I first read about this issue I thought "fair enough if Reddit wants to charge for their API, they have server costs to pay". And I didn't use 3rd party apps.

But their behaviour since then is what makes me not want to use Reddit anymore. They clearly have no intention to treat users or mods with respect. When users are voting to close their subreddits, Reddit is forcing those subreddits open, because Reddit only cares about lining their pockets. They're ignoring democracy when it suits them, despite the CEO saying he thinks Reddit should be more democratic (because he thought users would vote out the mods - the outcome he wants). He clearly never cared about democracy at all.

I mean sure, every business ultimately cares about money, but most businesses are smart enough to not treat their users like crap. Most businesses recognise that you have to respect your users to at least some degree if you want them to keep using your services. Reddit seems to have completely forgotten that.