this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 82 points 2 years ago (24 children)

Does this apply to all works of fiction, or only those believed by extremist groups?

I can understand not being allowed to burn historically significant documents and books, but mass-produced books are just cheap fire tinder.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If this goes through, my wife might get her wish when I disparage the Harry Potter books.

I'm too pretty for prison.

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[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 36 points 2 years ago (3 children)

The centre-right government said it wanted to send a signal to the world.

That Denmark negotiates with terrorists?

[–] Faydaikin@beehaw.org 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Depends on how they plan to handle it. If a new law was formed specifically around the Quran, there might be a case.

But if it's outlawing book burning in general, that's quite another story.

Personally, I don't understand why a law like that isn't already in place after WW2.

[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)

But if it’s outlawing book burning in general, that’s quite another story.

“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” The intended target of this law is crystal clear.

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[–] PuppyOSAndCoffee@lemmy.ml 30 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Burn whatever you want, hate whoever you please. It is unpleasant however better than the thought police sending you to the ice prisons for ungood ideas. This idea that censorship stops anything but innovation and creativity is ludicrous.

[–] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yfw when you can’t say slurs without consequences angery

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[–] anthoniix@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago

Fuck the Quran

[–] Frederic@beehaw.org 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

What about burning "The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" or "Dianetics" books? Or Harry Potter, or LOTR books?

[–] Fisk400@feddit.nu 6 points 2 years ago

The law includes all religious texts. If an organization achieves religious status it will have the same protections.

[–] HowMany@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago

Denmark... do you believe in fairies?

No.

Then quit acting like it.

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago (14 children)

To the people defending this proposed law - hypothetically, if I were to set up a white board outside a mosque and draw the prophet, would you also be in favor of the police arresting me for ... drawing?

If so, why?

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I think this may already be illegal. You would be inciting and degrading members of a legal religion in Denmark, which has been against the law there since 1939. Blasphemy Laws were taken off the books in 2017, but this is a step back in that same direction. But then there is amendments to the constitution, I don't fully understand.

[–] mintyfrog@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Hinduism often has a belief in, "sanctity of the cow, ... the belief that the cow is representative of divine and natural beneficence and should therefore be protected and venerated" (Brittanica).

One could argue that eating beef is inciting and degrading to [probably a select few] members of Hinduism.

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago

I like this talking point

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

The difference is Hindus won't murder you.

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[–] shiveyarbles@beehaw.org 14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That's messed up, whatever happened to separation of church and state

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[–] xilliah@beehaw.org 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

OK I sort of get it, not that I agree with it, but 2 years in jail? That's absurd.

I'm from a conservative area and have heard countless stories of people who were traumatized in the name of Christianity. If one of those people feels like desecrating the Bible then it's just a form of personal expression. If that upsets you well then start a conversation with them and learn from each other. Putting someone in jail is not the solution.

I'm just saying Christianity has a broad spectrum and has changed a lot over time. Even from a Christian point of view you must value criticism in order to find the way forward. That counts for all religions. And if you don't think so, you're just arrogant.

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[–] iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Hate speech isn't free speech!

[–] cryptosporidium140@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (3 children)
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[–] mwguy 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Hate speech has no objective definition.

[–] iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Language is a social phenomenon, yes.

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[–] bi_tux@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Tell that the muslims who keep burning pride flags

[–] iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago

Okay, sure! Hate speech isn't free speech!

[–] CascadeOfLight@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago

When you really think about it burning a book is, in fact, censorship theory-gary

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 2 years ago

Hate Speech laws get an L from me. Hate crime laws where a crime motivated by prejudice awards extra jail time is just a better solution. Think about what this is really saying - if you burn the Quran, muslims will riot... in Iraq. And the Iraqi government will condemn you. Really?

[–] Cataphract@lemmy.ko4abp.com 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Plenty of good or interesting points being made by both sides so I appreciate the conversations. I'm not too sure of what the problem is though when the discussion and article mostly revolves around public spaces. Usually there are gathering/event requirements around anything that constitutes pyrotechnics or the use of fire in a performance as that can be a hazard and special precautions need to be followed (fire extinguishers, etc). I'm not too sure about the laws currently on the books of most countries but I doubt many places allow you to just walk up to a street corner and start a fire whether the item you're burning is your property or not.

I'm also confused on the double standard of what constitutes public or private when it comes to online media. I think this is something that needs to be fleshed out more in this day and age. For instance the article references a current law Denmark has on the books,

The ban is expected to be added to a section of the criminal code that bans public insult of a foreign state, its flag or other symbol.

Is social media/the internet a public space? If so, does posting a video recorded on private property and then uploading it to said online public space nullify the private property? I've seen a lot of people use this double standard only when it benefits them. For instance, if you typed out something online that's considered "free speech" but violates civil law because of it's context then they are in the wrong. On the flip side, if you record a video of someone having a conversation at a private backyard bbq and upload it, has the person broken a law when they weren't in "public" during the recording?

The ban above is a great example to use. I, myself, feel like the criminal code goes a little too far with no public insults of a foreign state. How does that work out with the scenario I presented when the video gets released. I'm not sure if the criminal code even touches on the digital aspect of it, or who is at fault (the uploader, the person making the statements, or the hosting site).


Another ironic stance I'm seeing is the freedom/protection of expression being used to allow the public burning of books and condemning those who are against it. There are specific and recognized groups which receive protections under the law from discrimination and targeting of hate speech (the Denmark suggested law also covers bibles so it's not just a Quran issue). Are we picking and choosing who these protections are allowed for based on our opinion on whether we agree with them or not?

For example if religious text burning is allowed for a public display, are all forms of expression then allowed? Burning a cross in front of an historically African American church, burning a pride flag at a pride march, burning baby dolls in front of an abortion clinic, political rivals, medical clinics that perform care for transitioning, hell even nazis burning disney shit outside of disney world?

If you're of the belief that all of this should be allowed under the umbrella of freedom of speech/expression, what do you feel should be the governments stance on protection of it's citizens from harassment in public spaces? Should the government even address these problems, or is it the same as no one should expect privacy in a public space so therefor expect persecution and harassment as well? How does this not effect businesses and organizations from being targeted with hostile forces? I'm reminded of the civil rights era, groups of white nationalists armed and congregating outside of a business to intimidate anyone of color from using the premises or social services. Groups will maintain these tactics and multiply if there is no resistance from a governmental stance, this will only heighten confrontations when opposing groups are formed to combat these scenarios leading to civil unrest, physical harm/altercations, and potentially death of innocent bystanders if something were to escalate.

I am not of any of those targeted groups, not a policy maker, and have an indifferent stance so I'm open to honest debate on everyone's side. I also feel like the remarks made by OIC needs to be investigated,

The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) called on its members to take appropriate action against countries where the Quran was being desecrated.

Any group that can be seen as calling for harm to members of that countries population should have legal ramifications in that country, but I'm unsure of what they mean when they say "appropriate action" which is why I said it should be investigated further.

[–] PuppyOSAndCoffee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Setting shit on fire is a time honored tradition.

Embassies are especially fair game (outside the grounds and in a safe fashion) . A protest in private is no protest at all.

So when the taliban make it illegal for women to go to school, citing the Quran….While I don’t think fire is the right thing to do, I absolutely agree it is a right to burn shit somewhere in front of the afghan embassy. If that includes a flag or religious text owned by the protestor, so be it.

However, people have the right to physically gain access to the buildings of use (service, home, food, etc) and safety first. Blah blah blah.

In general, the state should read public protest as a sign that local democratically elected officials are not aligning with the values of their constituents.

A public protest ought not be the first step.

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