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Hope this'll be better regulated than the pink batts. Otherwise it's not gonna be a good time when people opt for the cheapest batteries and cheapest tradies.
Statistically, how did the pink batt scheme fall short of your expectations/hopes?
They interviewed this guy in a van on today tonight. /s
"You wanna buy some speakers or what? The client ordered them and I can sell em to you now for cheap."
I liked the idea.. But, I have a massive pile of pink batts sitting above my bedroom at the moment (from before I bought the house). And they're likely so compressed now, they're unusable (I plan to replace them with cross thatched insulation to reduce sound from outside, as I only have blow in at the moment)
I am very keen for batteries. We have 20'ish kw of solar and so much is wasted because of export limits. If I could pump all that waste in to a battery to use over the peak period of an afternoon/evening we'd greatly reduce our bills.
Grab a new V2H/V2G charger as they start to come out and add it to an ecar.
https://zecar.com/reviews/bidirectional-v2h-and-v2g-ev-chargers-guide
The batteries on ecars are massive in conparison to home battieries.
Got an EV too - 85kw'ish of battery ready to roll.
Would love to soak it up over peak period, then recharge it overnight at off peak rates. Doing that alone would be a big saving.
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/redearth-bidirectional-chargers-mb3054/
Was interested in this one as
Through a partnership agreement with ambibox, RedEarth will produce the devices from its facility at Darra in Brisbane’s south-west suburbs – the first company to manufacture (assemble?) bi-directional chargers locally.
But have to see how it compares
The Ambibox DC Wallbox is a flexible bidirectional charger supporting both V2G and V2H applications. It offers up to 22kW of charging power. It has even been used in experimental setups to enable bidirectional charging in vehicles not originally designed for it—such as the Tesla Model Y. It’s ideal for both residential and commercial use.
This is interesting
The Ambibox unit has been able to successfully discharge energy from several EV models during testing:
Tesla Model Y BYD Atto 3 Polestar 2 Volvo EX30
I wonder if this will also include extra subsidies for electric vehicles which support bidirectional charging. Could really help push for an increase in electric vehicle uptake if you can also use it as a battery overnight.
This is something I've been waiting for, for ages, and is the reason I didn't get any previously (because the interest free loan didn't make sense, because of the risk of batteries dropping faster than any savings from the loan)
If it's a good deal, I'll likely buy more Solar panels too and double them from 6.6kw (5kw inverter).
Obviously, wouldn't be buying a tesla powerwall, but ideally something AC coupled still (so really hoping BYD makes something like that)
grab a BYD var and do this ?
https://zecar.com/reviews/bidirectional-v2h-and-v2g-ev-chargers-guide
I am want to sell my jeep.. Been waiting for a 4wd which is cheap enough though, with enough range. Don't need towing capacity at all, but need the capabilities if things go to crap (I operate a hiking group, and at least 1 or 2 overnight trips we went on, the weather turned to complete crap the next day and we needed high clearance to get out of it.. But places like Falls Creek at 450km from me (so 900 round trip), so range is somewhat important too, but I do accept that on the way home from some of these things, I might charge
Ideally want an EV though with enough range. Of its a Hybrid, I'd only need something with only a tiny pissy petrol engine, for emergency use that can be disabled mostly.
Really, no idea why people wouldn't want an EV if one suited
if one suited
This is why not everyone wants one. EVs are great and I’d love to get one as my next car, but they don’t cover everyone’s needs at every price point, and most people don’t have the ability to charge them at any useful speed thanks to the power infrastructure. There’s also the issue of the second hand market - no one wants to buy a second hand electric car, but most people understand that buying a brand new car is a fools game.
I have bought two secondhand electric cars and about to buy my third. Most people still don't understand this isn't quite as risky as it appears.
It costs half the price of a new EV to replace the battery. Buying a second hand EV means you have no idea how the battery has been treated, and you know the clock is already ticking until you have to shell out a massive amount of $ for a new battery.
@Whirlybird @kudra
The condition of a used EV depends on how it's been treated. EVs are not alone in that.
In general, the battery of a modern EV can be expected to last for the useful life of the vehicle. "... scientists discovered that battery replacements were very rare, with only about 1.5 percent of EVs needing a replacement – and almost all of those replacements were under warranty."
https://www.greencars.com/expert-insights/research-shows-ev-battery-replacements-very-rare
Correct, new EVs have even better batteries than first gen too. My first EV I replaced the battery, but not because they're was anything wrong with it: that battery likely would have lasted at least twice as long, but an enterprising engineer created a battery upgrade that doubled the original range in the same footprint, and we can expect further improvements in batteries, so I expect to upgrade again in future, maybe 10-15 years, and double the range again.
Old EV batteries can be reused and make ideal off grid house batteries.
A small study by a pro EV company, reported on by a pro EV site......yeah nah lol.
The warranty is what matters. Unless an EV is 10% of its sale price, if it's even within 2 years of its warranty on the battery ending it's no deal. Might it last 10 years past the warranty retaining ~70% of its capacity? Sure. It's possible. Could it also just drop dead at the drop of a hat, or capacity just drop like a rock? Absolutely. One of those scenarios will cost you almost the price of a new car, the other won't.
Yet you can only assert your belief @Whirlybird
Even a little trustworthy evidence would enhance your credibility.
"... generally, EV batteries are designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle ..."
https://www.whichcar.com.au/advice/when-do-ev-batteries-need-to-be-replaced
I can keep providing references all day, if you want.
And that lifetime is what, 8 years according to their warranty?
You can provide references for whatever you want, but like I said - the warranty is what matters. If the manufacturer warranty is for x years, anything after that is not guaranteed and is a massive risk because of how expensive the replacement is. This isn't hard to understand.
You might think there's no risk in buying an electric car that's out of warranty (or approaching the end of its warranty), but the tens of thousands of dollars you'd have to pay to replace the battery 1/2/5 years down the track says otherwise.
@Whirlybird
The average warranty for internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles varies depending on the manufacturer and region, but typically falls within the range of 3 to 7 years, with some up to 10.
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/best-car-warranties-revealed-118462/
So you're saying that ICE vehicles typically last 10 years or less.
There are risks in buying anything, new or used. The warranty is just a limited guarantee.
It used to be said of ICE vehicles that they'd never replace the horse. The big problem being that you can't grow the fuel.
With EVs, at least power points are pretty common. That wasn't the case for petrol stations, back in the day.
It's a management issue. The adaptable survived. You're just proving that you're not a survivor.
https://afma.org.au/new-ev-batteries-may-last-beyond-vehicle-lifetime-study/
A EV battery replacement is multiples of times more expensive than an engine replacement on basically any non-supercar lol.
You've made some bad arguments but that one knocks it out of the park.
@Whirlybird
Except that EV batteries rarely need replacement. As I've proven time and time again.
Clearly, you have a belief system that is not supported by reality.
Except when they don’t, at which time you’ll be out of pocket tens of thousands of dollars.
People like you are insufferable. EVs are awesome, but they’re not perfect and they’re a much bigger risk buying second hand.
@Whirlybird
Nothing's perfect. The survivors are those who can work with reality.
The fact that you're unable to substantiate you assertions repeatedly proves my point.
https://www.energyandclimate.qld.gov.au/energy/vehicles-and-energy/electric-vehicles/fact-check#battery-lifespan
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
Most new EVs come with an 8-year battery warranty, which guarantees they will retain at least 70% of their original capacity
So again, anyone buying an EV that is close to or older than 8 years old is taking a massive financial risk. Every link you post confirms this yet you think it’s proving your point lol
Have you actually bought a second hand EV?
Why on earth would I do that based on my post?
It was a facetious question. Clearly you wouldn't with such misguided preconceptions.
“Misguided preconceptions” lolololol
Any battery powered device that costs more to replace the battery than it costs to buy a new device is not a smart purchase when it’s close to or outside of its warranty period. The risk is not worth it.
It’s like you don’t even understand the point being made. If a EV battery was good for “the life of the car” (let’s say 350,000km or 20 years) then the warranty would be 350,000km or 20 years, wouldn’t it?
Answer me this - why is the battery warranty 8 years / 100,000km with 70% capacity (or whatever the km limit is, can’t remember off the top of my head)? Why don’t they guarantee it for 15 years? 20 years?
An incorrect assumption you have made is that batteries fail at a higher rate than major components on an ICE car. It’s a misunderstanding of the relative risk. Like how people hop in their car every day no worries but are afraid to fly.
Also is 100,000 miles or 160,000 km, not 100,000 km as the current warranty standard. And like any new technology, they really don't know exactly how long they are going to last, so at this stage manufacturers are hedging their bets.
https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/new-data-reveals-the-battery-life-in-used-electric-vehicles/
Again missing the point. My assumption wasn’t that batteries fail at a higher rate than “major components” on an ICE car - it was that if/when the battery fails it’s exponentially more expensive than any component failing on a ICE car.
If you buy a $50k ICE car and the entire engine dies out of warranty (which isn’t what happens generally, just parts of it would), a whole new engine will cost you probably $3k-$4k installed. Battery dies out of warranty on a $50k EV? ~$20k to replace……for a car that’s worth probably $10k by then.
Do you see the difference? One means you literally send the car to the wreckers and have no car, the other means you’re back on the road in the same car a week or 2 later.
You are lowballing the cost of replacing an engine significantly: it MIGHT be as low as $3000, it could be over $10,000. You also are completely ignoring the plethora of moving parts in an ICE vehicle that can fail. The drivetrain in an ICE vehicle contains 2,000+ moving parts typically, whereas the drivetrain in an EV contains around 20. This makes for a massive reduction in maintenance costs over the lifetime of the vehicle, which you also don't take into consideration in total cost of ownership.
A new engine for a 7+ year old out of warranty car that cost as much as a mass market EV is NOT going to cost you $10k.
And yes, there are more parts in conventional cars, but most parts are cheap to repair/replace. There’s no $20k part that WILL need replacing like there is in a EV. There’s no part that will make your car get less mileage every year.
Where is this guy egregiously wrong, in your opinion?
Saying that on average a EV battery will last you 400k miles for one lol.
There’s also the fact that it will need to be charged more and more frequently the older the car gets, as battery capacity reduces.
Then there’s the fact that one is a twin turbo performance car, the other is a family car.
Also the fact that electricity prices have been absolutely soaring the last few years, with no end in sight, while petrol prices have remained static for years.
I think that's already been proven, at least in the case of Teslas, that the batteries DO actually last that long on average?
Batteries that lose range but still functioning generally are being swapped out but then sold as house batteries, still incredibly useful and bigger than most house batteries. So they are not a total loss and largely still functioning. Newer battery systems allow swap out of individual cells.
If you look in the comments, someone swapped out the BMW to a cheap ICE car and the Tesla was still cheaper, lol.
I don't know where you are but electricity prices here have been going down as we add more renewables to the grid - there's a lot of volatility, but the overall trend is not increasing. State by state there is a huge difference in fuel mix, and wholesale prices generally peak in winter during higher demand. If you are talking about retail prices, you can be smart about that and work out what is best for your use case, I am with Amber which gives direct access to wholesale prices with a flat daily access fee slightly higher than most providers, but my neighbour who was off grid realised they could get much better value especially in winter through one provider with a very cheap overnight rate - they have a Tesla and fairly fast AC charging at home, and makes more sense for them as they drive more than me. I have a second hand EV with an upgraded 30kwh battery that has not really lost noticeable range in the almost 3 years I've owned it. Most EV owners have solar, and mostly charge for less or free from home - I'm one of them.
It has not been proven that Tesla and ev batteries last that long on average.
The more renewables that are added to the grid the higher electricity prices go.
Swapping a petrol guzzling twin turbo bmw for a fuel efficient small diesel car will swing the cost calculation significantly favour of the ICE car. EV cars cost significantly more than ICE cars in their segment.
Dude. I've provided the receipts with literally every post. You have provided nothing. Give it up already, you are ideologically hamstrung and unable to accept that you are wrong.
I think it's taking longer for bidirectional to be legal in most parts of Australia, though that might be happening soon. V2G is going to be a game changer for reducing dependence on coal, can't come soon enough!
Haha just read the article, it's great to see the approval but appalling we apparently have zero compatible cars. I have a JDM grey import with Chademo and that tech has been bidirectional for over a decade. So dumb.
Hopefully they’re decent rebates on decent battery systems, and not means tested so only the low income earners would qualify (but couldn’t afford anyway).
Every year I run the numbers to see if it makes sense to get batteries, and every year it doesn’t. Would love to go completely off grid.
Apparently the subsidy requires you to be connected to a "virtual power plant" plan with your energy company, which means that they control when your battery feeds back in to the grid or can be used by you. This is pretty much a deal breaker for me and should be for most people.
What it means is that the power company could force your battery to send its power to the grid at peak times, meaning any power you use comes from the grid, and your battery gets drained without them paying you a cent. It means that you could potentially not save a single cent on your power bill, while saving the power company money.
I'm with Amber, and while I don't have a battery yet, their VPP offering does appear different to most. I'd be wanting to check the conditions if this goes ahead as I would not want to sign up if I wasn't allowed to control when power is sent to to the grid.