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Keir Starmer does not believe trans women are women, No 10 says (www.bbc.com)

submitted 1 month ago by floofloof@lemmy.ca to c/unitedkingdom@feddit.uk

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[–] obinice@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer does not believe transgender women are women, his official spokesman has said.

Oh damn, this is huge. He's officially admitting to being a Transphobic Bigot. Literally.

What else in this ballpark would he like to admit to while he's at it? Maybe he's a Homophobe too? ...What's his stance on black people?

Also, are transgender men, men? And if so, why is it one rule for women and another for men? Is he sexist too?

On the basis of his admission of being a Bigot I would argue he is unfit to be leader of the Labour Party. I recall a Labour Prime Minister not too long ago getting angry at someone for being a Bigot... how times have changed...

[–] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

This is not huge. He is literally saying what the law says, which is exactly what you expect a prime minister to do. This isn't transphobia. This isn't bigotry. Literally.

You're blowing this completely out of proportion, and also throwing in a load of other shit that he never said anything about.

[–] flamingos@feddit.uk 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This is not huge. He is literally saying what the law says, which is exactly what you expect a prime minister to do.

Damn, if only the PM had the power to get the law changed.

The PM declined to repeat his previous statement "transwomen are women," instead asserting: "A woman is an adult female - the court has made that absolutely clear."

This is transphobia, seriously listen to him weasel out of it. He was asked if trans woman were women in general, not specifically for the purposes of the Equalities Act.

[+] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] flamingos@feddit.uk 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Should a transwoman have the same rights and respect as a woman? Absolutely. Are they the same? No, they are not.

'As a woman', a trans woman is a woman, different from a cis woman sure, but still a woman. This statement is fairly absurd if you substitute trans with another adjective, like is a blonde woman different from a woman?

Kier’s words are still not transphobia. There is no fear, dislike, prejudice, discrimination, harassment, or violence in his statement.

The prejudice is denying the legitimacy of trans women as women. 'Adult human female' is a dog whistle for 'not trans', so by asserting that a woman is 'an adult female' he's saying trans women aren't women (and that trans men aren't men).

[+] Diddlydee@feddit.uk -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] flamingos@feddit.uk 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I use the term woman and you knew exactly what I meant

I didn't actually, I wrote that to probe out what you actually meant because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

A blonde woman is a description of a woman’s hair colour and you know this.

And trans/cis is a descriptions of whether a woman was assigned female at birth or not. Woman is not synonymous with cis woman.

They have different names, which you yourself, use for a reason.

You give them different names, I'm using adjectives because the distinction matters in this context.

‘adult human female’ is not a dog whistle. It’s a legal and common-sense definition

It really isn't. When you meet someone irl, you brain doesn't decide if it thinks they are a man or woman based on their chromosomes or some bioessentialist bs, it does it based of social ques because man/woman are social categories.

I am not denying the legitimacy of transwomen [sic]; nor is Keir.

But also:

This is exactly the same as saying transwomen [sic] are not women, because they are not. They are transwomen [sic].

[–] BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 5 points 1 month ago

I'll probably fuck my terminology up here, forgive me, I try. Questions I have:

Are there a lot of people who look at other people's genitals in public toilets?

Can these people be arrested because I think they might be perverts and I don't want them looking at my kids?

Are people going to have to start showing their genitals to security guards?

Has someone given security guards the right to demand to see people's genitals?

How the fuck does that even work when someone's had gender reassignment surgery?

Presumably trans men must now use the women's toilets?

Does someone who's had gender reassignment surgery need to bring their full medical history with them in order to prove they're using the "correct" toilet?

Not aimed particularly at you flamingos - just questions that are coming to mind reading this thread.

Seems to me this would be a lot simpler if people would just stop looking at other people's genitals in toilets uninvited.

[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago

A trans woman, and a cis woman are both subtypes of women. One used to be physically male, the other didn't. Both are women and should be afforded the same treatment under law unless actually there's actually reasonable issues created by that.

[–] Flamekebab@piefed.social 18 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I can't decide whether they're awful or just saying awful things to pander to the awful bits of the electorate. Both are terrible but they're different flavours of evil.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Pandering to the most awful bigots in the country is an awful thing to do. This is a spineless government with no principles other than "don't offend the right wing".

[–] joekar1990@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Feels like a cozying up to trump looking for a tariff exemption by doing this too, right?

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

Wouldn't be surprising at this point.

[–] thehatfox@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Labour chose to take this particular stance today. There are many other approaches they could have taken, they could have also tried to dodge the matter and kick they can down the road, but instead "trans women are not women" is what they have chosen to actively embrace.

(Further) pandering to the transphobic lobby is not necessary, and what's been said today is far beyond pandering.

[–] EnsignWashout@startrek.website 9 points 1 month ago

I'm constantly amazed that this is a hard subject for people. As the golden rule says:

"I'm not going to reach into your pants, without an invitation. And I prefer no one reach into my pants, because we barely know each-other. Whatever someone tells me is in their pants, I'll take their word for it, as long as they haven't flashed me in public. Also, shitting in practically transparent stalls is awful for everyone, and showering with strangers sucks. Let's all just do less of both."

[–] deadcatbounce@reddthat.com 4 points 1 month ago

They're missing a word on the end of that sentence: "today". Tomorrow, however ...

[–] ploot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago

It's at times like these I turn to my man Alexei:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyQGrq-Y7gg