A community for discussion and democratic decision making in the Divisions by zero.
Anyone with voting rights can open a governance thread and initiate a vote or a discussion. There's no special keywords you must be aware of before you open a thread, but there are some. here's the governance thread manual.
Some of my thoughts:
I value the community that we have and the style of communication that makes Lemmy different from other forum type software.
I very much dislike the political views of its creators.
I have an account on Piefed and while it's not terrible, it's still not as nice as here. I think it can get there over time.
Thanks for your input. To clarify we don't want a 100% switch, just a new instance alongside this one
I was hoping a dbzer0 piefed instance would happen sometimes in the future! I would totally use it, since it has some pretty cool features that Lemmy has been quite slow in implementing. For example, merged communities that cover one specific topic.
I don't trust Piefed at all - they're far too eager to curate my experience, and they've reintroduced all of the reputation anti-features (plus more) that were part of what drove me away from Reddit and the absence of which is part of what I like about Lemmy and Mbin.
If you're contemplating a second instance, I don't much care, because I can simply not use it. If you're contemplating a move, I think it's an awful idea.
iirc Piefed started as a small personal project, so it was quite opinionated. Now that there's more users rimu has said he'll make it more neutral, and give more power to instance admins.
And yep, it's a second, separate instance
I don't know much about Piefed. What anti-features are you talking about?
It tracks karma, automatically collapses replies and hides threads based on downvote thresholds and attaches icons to usernames to tell other users in advance that they have been downvoted in the past. And alongside that, votes are hidden. So a few determined users (or even one determined user and a few bots) can easily silence other users or even effectively censor content just by mass downvoting.
Just like Reddit, and notably NOT like the rest of the threadiverse which has done away with karma, doesn't auto-hide downvoted users or content snd makes votes public.
votes are hidden.
After having discussed with a few people, Rimu agreed to drop the private voting. The system will switch to two votes button
a local one that will stay local
a federated one that will be sent to other instances
https://chat.piefed.social/#narrow/channel/5-admins/topic/Private.20voting/near/332
This provides better transparency than Lemmy, as users are now complaining about tool like lemvotes: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/48233901/19876557
It's crazy to see Rodneyck come up in this. I banned that account when it showed up to one of the communities I'm moderating 18 days ago and dropped five downvotes in quick succession. Something lemvotes helped me identify quickly.
Yeah, I don't like any of that. Thanks for the explanation.
I think I'm for it, but I also don't know if I understand the implications. So, some questions:
Is there a downside?
Would this be in addition to lemmy or a replacement?
If it is in addition to, is that the permanent plan, would this be working toward an eventual switch-over?
I should probably try piefed a bit so I understand it a bit better, but it's just a different Lemmy basically, right? Does it federate with existing Lemmy?
If it doesn't federate with what we already have, I'd have to keep up with two things, and two is a big number, so I'd probably just pick one and stay there.
Anyway, exciting nonetheless. I'll go eat some pie now and see what that's all about.
Piefed federates with lemmy, it's basically a clone written in python instead of rust, with advanced moderator tools, and developed by people who aren't braindead Stalinists.
Thanks for the explanation!
I did some pierusing and liked what I saw, too.
pierusing
Brilliant pun! 🥧
Is there a downside?
Not really, i think. We have the resources, and being an admin isn't too time consuming; surely we can make time for an extra instance.
Would this be in addition to lemmy or a replacement?
Addition
If it is in addition to, is that the permanent plan, would this be working toward an eventual switch-over?
Probably not. There would be way too many potential issues and it's risky.
I should probably try piefed a bit so I understand it a bit better, but it's just a different Lemmy basically, right? Does it federate with existing Lemmy?
Yep. Try https://quokk.au/ (anarchist instance, too!) which is basically the closest thing we have right now
Also if you do try out quokk.au, you can export your subscriptions and settings to dbzer0 in the future.
Growing is usually good. Do the expanded tools to the admins warrant the additional headache?
Sometimes being small and having your own dark little corner of the internet where the “normies” don’t hang out is OK too.
A lot of forums started with a barrier of entry that required a small bit of tech savvy to get there. Not that picking an instance to get on the fediverse is that hard, but if it’s keeping someone at bay, that might be preferable.
We don't have interest in being mainstream, we like dbzer0 how it is. It's mainly about the faster development/extra features, and shouldn't be a problem to manage
Yes, I'm all for it (assuming it wouldn't create too much work for you guys). Not supporting the Lemmy devs is a great idea. Heck, I would have moved completely to one of my piefed accounts if it wasn't for not wanting to abandon this account on db0.
Out of curiosity, would it ever be possible to migrate everyone here over to a piefed instance, allowing you to shut down the Lemmy instance? I'm not suggesting doing that (well, maybe lust a little), but more interested in the technical nature.
It is possible, but piefed isn't 100% backwards compatible with lemmy, so stuff like custom-emojis (we don't use them much, but threativore relies on it) wouldn't be imported, since piefed doesn't support it.
And piefed/lemmy use different encryption, so each user would have to reset their password.
If the piefed instance was on the same domain as this one (lemmy.dbzer0.com) it could in theory work.
Seems like it would be a lot more work and potential attack surface for what's essentially redundant.
Also seeing other comments, I'm out of the loop. What's so bad about the lemmy devs?
It wouldn't be too much of a burden, and piefed has some very nice additions to what lemmy offers
What's so bad about the lemmy devs?
Ah. In that case, why not?
I really hate fragmentation. Linux suffers heavily from it. It creates redundant work. I think duplicate projects are curse on the open source so thats why I am not in favor of that.
I agree but at the same time Lemmy devs are problematic to say the least and nothing bad has been uncovered about piefed so far.
Absolutely! The sooner we have the option to be free of the issues with Lemmy development (or not to the point, developers) the better.
Yes please! I've already joined piefed.ca to be able to support a platform without sponsoring communist propaganda, but they seem to have issues federating content properly, it takes over 24h to see new posts from Lemmy, and many discussions will be over at that point.
This very post for example is not visible there at all.
Would hope that with more instances we'd also get to see content sooner.
Ah, that explains a lot. I don't want to join the main instance, nothing against it, but I've seen lemmy.world go overboard, so prefer to stick to some more "indie" instances.
I've got open registration at quokk.au if you want to give it a try. Posts seem to sync within seconds to minutes of most instances from my experience.
