Al Jazeera has a timeline going. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/7/israel-palestine-escalation-live-news-barrage-of-rockets-fired-from-gaza Israel-Palestine escalation live news: Hamas starts Operation Al-Aqsa Flood
this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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As an outsider, I read about land being reclaimed by Isreali settlers but cannot see how this is different to any other similar situation, like the Ukraine conflict.
No no Russia is evil for invading Ukraine. But Palestinians are evil for being invaded by Israel
From my understanding is Israel has been oppressing Palestinians for years now. This is Palestine "fuck you" move that, imo, is long overdue. I do not want this conflict, but Israel has this coming.
The non-combatants being murdered did not "have it coming", and thinking otherwise is psychotic.
Hamas could have restricted themselves to army bases; they're not hidden. Instead they stormed nearby towns and started gunning down anyone they could find. There is simply no justification for this.
And before anyone asks, every innocent Palestinian murdered by the IDF is just as much of a crime. This isn't how any progress is made. Who knows how many Gazans are going to pay for this, which Hamas is perfectly well aware of because it doesn't actually care about them.
Youre right, I made my comment at about the start of this. I dont necessarily change my "this was coming" stance but at no point did i think this would change anything and will definitely make things worse for everyone involved.
Netanyahu was elected despite Israel expanding so I guess the majority of citizens were fine with taking palestinian lands. If you're fine with stealing something you're fine with taking the risk that it will be fought for. They thought they could do it without risking their lives and then fucked around and found out.
And Hamas was also elected, and if you spend any time on Arabic social media, you'll see this being applauded everywhere.
Is it that hard to think at even a slightly higher level? If you think these attacks were justified because of prior violence, then you also think that Israel is now justified at a brutal response, which will further radicalize all sides and make peace even more impossible than it already is. I mean, do you want Gaza to become a flattened field of rubble? Because that's the road that you're talking about going down.
I don't know much about this conflict, so all I say is meant as big "maybe"s.
As a settler moving into occupied territory, maybe you shouldn't be counted as 100% civilian. Not a military target either. I think it blurs the line.
Sucks for the next generation.
Gaza is a prison and Israel is.the warden
It was only a matter of time. You can only oppress innocent people so much before they have no other choice left behind.
As usual the world turns a blind eye to this oppression.
Of course, now, Israel will feel they have the mandate to obliterate them even more.
Innocent my ass. Oppressors my ass. They negotiate in bad faith and have never wanted a peace, nor will they ever achieve anything by this violence. They're a disgusting one trick pony that the world has seen through.
Lynching and raping and mutilating bodies and killing civilians for fun are not among things possibly justified by any oppression. As I've said elsewhere, they behave like Azeris or Turks. If you want a truly independent Palestinian state, then you'd want these thugs squashed, otherwise they'll create a picture impeding the creation of such a state for decades.
What's your view on 9/11?
I don't remember the U.S. oppressing the Saudis. When did that happen?
Osama Bin Laden:
Terrorism against America deserves to be praised because it was a response to injustice, aimed at forcing America to stop its support for Israel, which kills our people.
Did American civilians 'have it coming' on 9/11?
Do Israeli civilians 'have it coming' now?
"Our people?" Bin Laden wasn't a Palestinian. He was just lying. So I'm pretty sure that's not the same.
He claimed he was defending his fellow arabs.
Would 9/11 have been justified if Bin Laden had been a Palestinian?
I don't play games like that. He wasn't a Palestinian. He wasn't fighting for Palestinians. That was a bullshit cover. It was a Saudi operation. It was funded by the Saudis and 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. If there is ever a Palestinian attack on U.S. soil, and I doubt there will be since they don't have the funding or the organization, we can talk about whether or not it is justified and what measures, if any, should be taken.
But I'm not interested in "Would Hitler's invasion of Poland have been justified if the Poles were the ones oppressing the Jews" questions.
In summary:
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You don't think American civilians 'had it coming' on 9/11. The reason you don't think they had it coming, is because Bin Laden wasn't Palestinian.
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You do think Israeli civilians 'have it coming' now, because those murdering them are Palestinian.
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If Palestians murdered 3000 American civilians, you think 'we could talk' about if that was justified and if they should face consequences ('if any') for that crime.
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Perhaps predictably, you failed to not mention the holocaust or Hitler.
The conflict in Israel / Palestine started under British rule, before the proper existence of either Israel of Palestine as we know them today. The population that would eventually declare Israeli independence came riding in on migrant ships, not tanks. The one decisive moment everyone can agree an internationally recognized border was violated was the Israeli expansion in '67. So I would say that it's fruitful and apt to ask "how is demanding Israel return to '67 borders any different from demanding that Russia go back to Russia?", but stretching the analogy to the whole I/P conflict is probably out of place.
I have to admit my understanding of Hamas is imperfect at best, I'm mostly aware of them from their work during Israel's illegal invasion of Southern Lebanon...
But doesn't this seem uncharacteristically... aggressive for Hamas? Attacking civilians at a music festival?
Taking civilians hostages?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/hostages-hamas-israel-gaza/index.html
What has caused this sudden change in their MO? If you had told me Hezbollah was doing it, I wouldn't have batted an eye, (and they seem to approve - https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-gaza-rockets-attack-palestinians/card/hezbollah-praises-hamas-attack-warns-against-normalising-ties-with-israel-rbqLpR9QDzCyiUGQw0xl) but this seems just so much more radical than Hamas has been previously.
Hamas, for years, had "the extermination of the Jewish people" in their charter. Not "drive the Jews out of Israel," but exterminate them.
I believe they technically removed it a few years ago, but they obviously didn't ditch the sentiment. They've also fired rockets at civilian targets multiple times.
Hamas is a terrorist organization masquerading as a governing body.
The creation of the Israeli state was the worst move in geopolitics since the scramble for Africa and the border fuckery that ensued from that. They couldn’t have stuck the Jews somewhere more hospitable than the holy land of two opposing religions?
they should have put it in New Jersey instead tbh
militants travel from palestine to palestine
Ah yes the Palestinian people again show their endless peacefulness. Of course they will tell that they are the victims again, and have no other choice but to launch rockets.
Fuck those terrorists. There will never be peace as long as the Palestinian people will not oppose those terrorists, but they even support them.
Or maybe there will never be peace until Israeli people stop voting for right wing religious and nationalistic extremists ? Really, this country has gone worse and worse since Rabin was murdered... 😥
The existence of Israel is rooted in right wing and religious pretext. They intentionally went in and founded a nation in a sea of enemies. It will always have a right wing majority.
You simply need jingoistic, proactive, authoritarian influences. Think of it like a person being switched into survival mode.
Or maybe Palestine should stop murdering Israelis before? Why do you defend the terrorists and shift the blame into Israel? Ever read about Israel's history?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
Not that this justifies terrorists murdering civilians.
Anndddd what is your opinion on the nonstop onslaught of Israel against the Palestinians?
Why are the Palestinians so fucking stubborn to negotiate in good faith and to bring some sort of peace and conclusion to this bloodshed? Aren't they tired of killing and destruction? Perhaps they could build something great. It's the same fucking story all the time. Nobody cares anymore. You only get so many chances before you're the problem. Like the saying goes, "If you go through your day and you meet an asshole. You've met an asshole. If all you meet are assholes, then maybe you're the asshole." They're the asshole. There's an insane cognitive dissonance there. Like shit and get off the pot, actually sue for peace, actually try to do something instead of sending idiots to slaughter.
Why can't they just accept being caged like animals?