Compact business desktops like others have mentioned are great. Depending on your needs, I also like using older or used laptops. They’re still power efficient if you get a recent processor model, people sell them for fairly cheap used, and sometimes having an attached keyboard and display is more convenient than having to hook up a crash cart
Selfhosted
A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don't control.
Rules:
-
Be civil: we're here to support and learn from one another. Insults won't be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.
-
No spam posting.
-
Posts have to be centered around self-hosting. There are other communities for discussing hardware or home computing. If it's not obvious why your post topic revolves around selfhosting, please include details to make it clear.
-
Don't duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.
-
Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).
-
No trolling.
Resources:
- selfh.st Newsletter and index of selfhosted software and apps
- awesome-selfhosted software
- awesome-sysadmin resources
- Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting
Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.
Questions? DM the mods!
Are they cheap though? Maybe in the grand scheme of things.
Like $200 for one Thinkpad versus five raspberry pis.
I can’t remember the last time I saw a Raspberry Pi for $40, the demand still has prices sky-high
Thin clients off eBay. I picked up a Dell Wyse with 8gb memory, 4 cores, 16g emmc, and a 256G M.2 SSD for about $40. Includes the case, power supply, power button, etc. Still uses very little power. Install the x86_64 version of dietPi on that and it's been Rock solid running my docker projects.
Also picked up and HP T620 with similar specs. Haven't started using it yet but I expect similar results.
Much better deal than RPi and for most use cases equal or better able to do the job.
I've got a t620, and am using it as a firewall. It has aes-ni so I can generate certs. Plus it has a pcie slot, so I threw a nic in there. Its powerful for around the same price as a raspberry pi is going these days. I think I got it for about $80 plus $10 or $15 for the nic.
I picked up a Dell Wyse with 8gb memory, 4 cores, 16g emmc, and a 256G M.2 SSD for about $40
Wow, that was a very good deal! I've just had a look and for those specs 100€ are not enough here in Europe. For that price I've bought some Fujitsu Futro that are not even near those specs (2/4GB RAM, 8GB SSD).
If you want embedded boards Rockchip and Sunxi/AllWinner are pretty well supported by the Linux kernel. Go have a look at boards with full Armbian support, that's usually a good shortcut to finding one.
My preference runs to the Nanopi boards, they're better built than Orange Pi hardware. You're going to see a lot of Orange Pi recommendations based on cost but be aware that they're not all that well made and occasionally have reliability problems. I was pretty chuffed for my $20 Orange Pi zero until I realized that the WiFi basically had zero chance of working reliably. Pick models carefully after reading about people's experiences with them on the Armbian forums so you can avoid duds.
If you don't need embedded arm check out the thin client selection on eBay. You can buy a J5005 Dell/Wyse thin client for like $100, some models even have a low profile pcie slot (these cost a bit more because they're desirable as pf/OPNsense platforms.) These make pretty solid Proxmox or container host platforms, or you can use them for their intended purpose and jam in a low profile graphics card.
My personal "I don't feel like spending $150 on a 4gb pi" favorite is the HP T630 thin client. On a good day you'll find an 8gb RAM model with the power brick for <$60 shipped. Do the eBay thing with any of these and try to best offer the price down a bit if it's an option.
If you want to step up a notch check out the HP T730, this one comes with a pcie slot and makes a fairly decent Proxmox virtualized router host. They're usually available for <$130/shipped or less. The HP T740 is the same thing with a Zen1 embedded SoC, those run ~$220 or so and support NVMe. The Wyse 5070 offers Celeron or Pentium options and is a <10W machine, the J5005 version actually works pretty well as a hardware transcoding PLEX host (provided you're not transcoding 4k.)
The T730 and T630 use SATA m.2 storage, the 5070 and T640 support NVMe. All of these have an m.2 A+E key slot for WiFi or an extra 2230 NIC.
A used NUC blows a raspi out of the water performance-wise, and they use surprisingly little power when not under load. I run proxmox with a NAS, pihole and homeassistant on a NUC from 2015, and it draws around 9W.
I'd recommend an x86 board because as great as the RPI and similar can be, ARM just doesn't have the same support for a lot of things you might want to self host. I personally like to spring for a used thinclient PC off of eBay, because they have about the same resources as a Raspberry Pi but on an x86 platform. With my thin clients I typically install Alpine but a really light Debian install could work as well, and then from there you can go about installing Docker etc for a little homelab. Even better, if you get lucky and get a couple of them you could mess around with clustering them and some light Kubernetes at home. I've got mine running PiHole and Unbound on Alpine to serve my whole house with DNS and it works great. I don't think I've had hardly any downtime issues or anything of that sort.
TL;DR: try a couple cheap thin clients from eBay and you can run some light stuff on them for cheap.
I'm seconding this. The Pi-supply-dry is getting better, but for similar money to a Pi4 you can get an ex-corporate 1L mini PC (I like the HP G1 800's in a nice case, with engineered cooling, real storage, and easy memory upgrades.
ARM just doesn't have the same support for a lot of things you might want to self host
Like what? Person explicitly mentioned opensource software.
used thinclient PC
Usualy thay are cheap used, so it might work too
ARM software support is just generally rough, yeah it's good on RPi (and Mac) but on other boards it typically sucks, namely the cheaper boards OP would be buying. Here's a couple software examples though, I'm a big docker user and just the other day I was trying to run I believe Mastodon and Lemmy on an ARM device but there was just no image for it. I'm sure I could build an image myself but for someone just getting into Homelabbing (like OP), x86 is the platform to use.
I'm a big fan of dell wyse machines. Loads on ebay, ex business machines. X86 so decent support, decent dell power supply, on / off button / in cases and low power.
I have wyse 3040 for pihole cost 39.99
I have wyse 5070 with windows 10 for plex and running a Ubuntu 22 server in virtual box, cost 59.99
Thanks for the suggestion (I am looking forward to other comments as well) Well , I like x86 in general but not for self-hosting maybe? i have heard that they are bulky and take a lot of energy
You can expect a thin client to use about 10 watts idle (but more under load), which adds up to about 100 kWh per year. Some models use even less.
When people say x86 is not power efficient, it usually means it's not very efficient for battery powered devices, or is kind of wasteful in situations like in data centers where they're running thousands of machines. For home use, with a machine that's gonna probably end up idling most of the time, my best guess is it would cost you a couple tens of dollars a year to run vs a slightly smaller amount.
Personally, just so I don't have to deal with software compatibility on different architectures, I'll gladly pay that small difference in power usage, but this will of course vary depending on what you're looking to run on there.
I migrated on to a NUC. They seem to have the right mix of performance and power efficiency, for me. The i3 processor also means you're not dealing with the extra complexity of Arm64.
I got a mini pc (e.g. a NUC). I did this after the price for rasps went sky high. Check out used NUCs, you can get a lot of power for the price.
This is the way I went, I got the tiny form factor versions of a Lenovo and Dell business desktops for about 100 bucks each. If you get lucky you can find real good deals on these things most will take a 2.5" drive as well as a m.2 drive, and they'll fit upwards of 32 or 64gb of ram depending on the device.
I have a nuc from 2015-2018 and its very bad at heat management. Like during summertime if the AC is not on its going to reboot itself after a while when using it (it can reach 35C° where it is stored) I now have a optiplex micro which is much better but I still want to use the NUC for something else
I just picked up one of these since I had the change: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C1X191NR
Plus a 4TB samsung external drive. Should be awesome, and fits anywhere in my house.
Seconded that used minis ought to be quite reasonable and fast if this seems like too much. (Although you can also get a similar new one for half this, if you cut down on disk and ram.)
That's actually great for the price, i7 12, 32Gb ram, 1Tb M2, etc? Not bad at all! Would even be a great little gaming setup
Pine64 single board computers. Rock64, Rockpro64, Quartz64.
Cheap chinese SBCs/TV boxes on Allwinner.
Thin clients! $30, sometimes $15, for just as much CPU power as the Pi. More power usage, though. And ensure you buy the cables and SSD, check carefully what the seller is including or excluding from the shipment.
I use Hardkernel products for my kid's PCs, as pihole, etc. Their products are sold under the Odroid brand. I have the Odroid C1 and C4 line of SBCs and they work as expected. The C1 used to be my mediaplayer, now it runs a game server and pihole. A little older, but it still has use.
I've been using an XU4 for a number of years. Not used it as a server but it works great as a client. I'm sure it would with excellent as a server. I've had Ubuntu, tried Android, and currently running Batocera for gaming.
I like that it has an SD slot like a Pi but also a storage module which plugs onto the board which is much faster. I can boot from one or the other by flicking a switch on the board.
Only draw back is that it doesn't have onboard WiFi or Bluetooth and limited USB ports. I had to use a powered USB hub then find a PSU with a step down inverter to power it all, making it bigger than a small board. I'd still highly recommend it though.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters | More Letters |
---|---|
DNS | Domain Name Service/System |
HTTP | Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web |
NAS | Network-Attached Storage |
NAT | Network Address Translation |
NUC | Next Unit of Computing brand of Intel small computers |
NVMe | Non-Volatile Memory Express interface for mass storage |
PCIe | Peripheral Component Interconnect Express |
PSU | Power Supply Unit |
PiHole | Network-wide ad-blocker (DNS sinkhole) |
RPi | Raspberry Pi brand of SBC |
SATA | Serial AT Attachment interface for mass storage |
SBC | Single-Board Computer |
SSD | Solid State Drive mass storage |
nginx | Popular HTTP server |
[Thread #214 for this sub, first seen 13th Oct 2023, 14:55] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
Second hand thin clients (like the dell wyse already mentioned) are often cheap and easy to use https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/
Used an rpi4 for a year as a media server and was quite happy but wanted to run a few more things so I switched to an i3 NUC11 and I really like it. Running an arr stack + plex + jellyfin + nextcloud and its using 7w 'idle' (mentioned services running) with a headless debian 12. Fit a 5TB HDD in it and a 1TB nvme. 16GB or ram. It definitely runs faster and jellyfin is actually usable. Still though, rpi4 can handle the load (sans jellyfin). The rpi5 will also fit into this market very well.
I like fanless PCs. Some have gpio headers for home automation purposes.
For just self-hosting, I'd probably like using refurbished laptops. Seems nuts, but low power, included input and screen, built in UPS, and sometimes you can get them for like 100 bucks. You can just use a USB or wifi device for home automation purposes if need be.
OrangePi is pretty nice. Built in 8gb eMMC module is a huge performance boost. Only $60 with case and PSU.
Yeah I have an orangepi5 running pihole and a suite of home assistant related docker containers and it's been working flawlessly. Even has an m.2 slot
Edit: actually read the OP lol. For Jellyfin I think I'd opt for something a bit more powerful than an SBC.
Orange Pi is pretty hit and miss in my experience. I had a number of them a few years ago that either had horrible reliability or problems with their WiFi.
On the other hand my Orange Pi Zero Plus 2 made a great retro emulation machine, I've had zero issues with that model.
Do due diligence per model if you're buying one, some aren't great.
I’ve used lots of different boards. The Radxa Rock 3c is cheap and has decent performance, but the official OS support is a bit old. The Libre Computer boards are also good and have Armbian support. Libre Computer is releasing a couple more this year too. BananaPi has good options that aren’t expensive, like the BananaPi M5. Friendly Elec has some boards like the NanoPi R2C and R5C that aren’t pricey and have Armbian support. Any one of these boards are fine for a small home lab. Just boot Armbian, install Docker, and add your containers.
I'm current using a refurbished business Lenovo mini PC. I've seen a similar model with i7 and 16GB of RAM for about $170 on Amazon. There are also mini PC's using NXXX model Intel CPU's with a TDP of 10w, but I don't think you can upgrade parts on those.
That's what I use for my low intensity projects. I didn't realize the i7 ones were that cheap now, maybe I should grab another.
I7 doesn't mean much without knowing the CPU generation. A 4th Gen i7 is dirt cheap but is only 4c/8t and a power hog. Meanwhile a much newer i3 could be more capable at 1/3 the power.
Check eBay and you'll get a good look at pricing, Amazon sellers will take you for a ride here.
This. My old 2nd gen i5-750 doesn't hold a candle vs. a modern i3.
I wouldn't recommend anyone go older than 6th Gen Intel CPUs these days. They're already 6+ years old, anything before that doesn't usually support x86-64-v3 and the perf/watt just isn't worthwhile. Your total cost of ownership on, say, a Haswell i7 is going to be significantly higher than a Skylake machine even over the first year once you account for energy costs.
That doesn't even touch on iGPU performance or hardware codec support, you really want to go as new as possible if you're looking for media playback or transcoding - the energy cost on decoding alone without HW support is bananas.
Preferably you'd use Intel 8th gen (when the i3s stepped to 4c/8t and the i5/i7s went to 6c/12t) but I don't know how competitive pricing is on those these days. I'd try to stick with Zen2 on the AMD side if possible, that's about when their perf/watt really started to get good - I do have a soft spot for Zen1 embedded though, you can get great prices on v1756b boxes on eBay now (the HP T740) and those make nice virtualized 10Gb router platforms.
The RK3566 and RK3588 alternatives are pretty good, and there are a bunch of them from different companies.
I have a 3566 myself as a compatible alternative to a CM4, and it does its job just fine.
I've recently been looking into ESP32 programming - they're microcontrollers with onboard Bluetooth and WiFi, that are smaller yet more powerful than Arduinos. Randomnerdtutorials gets recommended a lot elsewhere; I believe I saw one tutorial for running a web server on an ESP32.
If you need a full OS and/or more resources, I'm not sure raspberry pi can be beaten (at least, that's how the market was years ago when I was looking)
Running a webserver is not the same as hosting a service. For the software examples requested by OP, an ESP32 is useless