Dishonored nailed a neat trick: If every game dev stops innovating immediately after you release an innovative game, your game will always be considered highly innovative.
this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2025
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Yeah, people are always like, y no half life 3?
Look at what Valve has said in response to similar questions.
Its basically a polite way of saying 'yeah there really isn't a better possible first person shooter, single player experience.'
So they made a reality breaking first person puzzle game, became the de facto overlords of PC gaming platforms, invented VR tech, oh and made linux be able to run every game, oh and we make console-esque PCs now too, I guess.
Hell, I don't even know of other games that solve the 'multiplayer fps maps are predictable and boring' the way L4D did, where the map itself csn basically mutate, have a bunch of semi-procedural preset variants.
Nope, instead, we still have the most popular multiplayer FPS games have basically static, memorizable maps.
Turns out gamers broadly don't actually seem to want innovation, they seem to want gacha games, as gacha games are now basically more than half of the gaming market.
Example of that: That friend you know who's still really trying to convince you that Fallout 76 is better now.
Okay one thing I have definately noticed in L4d is that I am never stationary or still long enough to feel bored. Almost every other fps pve game is just "stand on top of hill and gun down hordes of zombies".
Modern games feel like we are going backwards in gameplay. Atleast the graphics are nice I guess?
They really did go very in depth to the 'game controller', basically its a simulated DM for a TTRPG.
The ... constantly on edge thing?
Systems of spawning and nudging AI states of groups of enemies, specifically designed to make you feel that near constant tension.
That, combined with the entire group alerting/hording npc mechanic. Make a little noise? You might be ok. Make too much noise? Prepare to get fucked. Oh also, the threshold between 'probably safe' and 'totally fucked' is always moving around a bit, so... you don't really ever know where it is, with certainty.
Its basically an optimal way to induce a stress/panic disorder in a person, its not you watching a horror movie, its... you're essentially actually in one.
The other element of that is that they're much better at traditional map design, making choke points mixed with more open spaces, giving you some options to explore/use as cover/retreat to, but also, some of those options are actually traps that will punish you.
Ooops, that's not safety, its effectively a monster closet!
(Sometimes its an actual monster closet, sometimes its that the closet is actually fairly far away, but there's a prebaked navmesh path from the actual spawn point that leads directly to thst area you thought was gonna be safe.)
Also uh L4D doesn't have a 2D minimap.
It uses things like way points and object/objective stencils/borders, and, a lot of the maps are complex vertically, in addition to horizontally, so... just naively moving toward the waypoint?
Probably not gonna work so well in L4D, whereas in most games, that basically will work.
There is also a kind of problem in that a growing number of people cannot navigate their own hometowns without a real life minimap... players generally are getting worse at complex environment navigation overtime, and that's true in both real and virtual spaces.
Half Life 2 was about 5 years too early to be considered "basically beyond imptovement". The graphics are a little dated now, and maybe the gameplay is a little simpler than a modern FPS, but ultimately it's pretty close to the mark. I haven't been surprised by FPS mechanics or graphics in 10 years, so there's basically no way for Half Life 3 to surprise us. Dishonored 1 and 2 were basically identical. If you told me the second one came out immediately after, I'd believe you.
Yeah, thats fair, I'm not trying to personally say HL2 is literally perfect, and I don't think Valve are either...
But they're saying that, by the time people really really wanted Half Life 3... they knew they would have to do something so revolutionary, so much better, to top it... that it actually wasn't possible.
So, think outside the box, innovate elsewhere, all the other shit they've done?
Conceptually and practically easier than making a sequel that would live up to HL3 expectations.
Although, there are apparently reports/rumors that they are now actually trying to do HL3.
But that has been the case for almost two decades.
... these things, they take time.
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Oh man, VGCats. I remember those days.
A reminder of a bygone era. Remember when we thought the video game industry was a mess back then?
If you like dishonored you should try prey by same studio. Level design is amazing and character interaction/plot changes based on how you play and where you are when certain events happen.
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Dishonored (1) is my favorite game of all time. I've put in so many hours across every console I've owned since it came out in 2012. Some of the best DLC story expansions of all time, too. Glad to see it still getting some love and mourning the fact that we'll never get another game.
Raphael Colantonio, the creative mind behind Dishonored, has started a new studio! Here's an article about their next game
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When I played the Dishonored series I had massive Thief vibes, I loved it! I looted everything and I killed no one, and it felt like good old times.
Reminds me, time to play them again!
That game is insane. Like, I played the game with a non-legal route because of the good ending and stuff. But after I finished the game, I wondered how other people played this game, and holy shit, we are playing different games lol. This game is very gorey I don’t even know it’s part of the core gameplay lol
Dude it's a blast. When they came out I played through each Dishonored once slowly, methodically, and non-lethal. Then immediately started over and hauled ass just slaughtering anything that got in my way. Both ways are valid and so much fun!
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One of my favorite trophies to get was the no kill run on the first dishonored. A lot of fun finding all the different ways to be a ghost. Though I wish they had more stealth magic, most of the stuff was combat based if I remember correctly
I adored dishonored, I played through them a couple times so I could see both endings, and I felt like it provided a really different experience.
I especially liked how you could do ng+ in dishonored 2, meant I could replay it as the other character with a bunch of free upgrades and unlocks to get things started.
I bailed on Dishonoured for one very specific reason; the morality system.
Dishonoured is, in my opinion a spectacular example of game design, and an equally spectacular example of how to break your game design by not understanding the way players interact with the tools you give them.
Dishonoured is a stealth game. It's also a game with a superb combat system, and a really fun and exciting set of powers for the player to enjoy using. These things can, sort of co-exist, if somewhat uneasily. But then you add the morality system.
The morality system, in effect, punishes you for playing the game in a non-stealthy way. Or, more specifically, for playing with the wrong kind of stealth. The morality system wants you to ghost the whole game, slipping past every opponent without the slightest evidence you were ever there. But doing that means not engaging with most of the powers and any of the combat.
Having the option to follow a ghost playstyle is great. But when the game sets up a bunch of really fun mechanics, then punishes you for engaging with those mechanics in exactly the way they were designed to be engaged with, that just sucks.
Can you explain why you think the game punishes the player for engaging in combat and killing enemies? I get that the events in the game may change but I'm not getting how that's a punishment to the player.
You get a bad ending if you kill too many people, and the non-lethal option is just the chokehold for the most part. I bailed for the same reason the first few times I tried to play through the game. The morality system is really the games only critical flaw (or they need more non-lethal options)
Non-lethal also means avoidance rather than conflict. But ultimately, "bad ending" is subjective. You still save the princess, it's just a more murdery vibe.
Also you get to kill the baddies yourself, it's the good ending where most are killed for you right?
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Yes, its a deliberate choice.
Dishonored is a descendant of the looking glass studio, 0451 immersive sim games, such as Deus Ex. These are games have flexibility, they let you choose how you approach. You can fight, or you can sneak, or you can do both. The game succeeds on this goal, as you can have a very satisfying time with the combat or the stealth, and you can do both. You can fight your way out of failing to sneak.
The morality system gives the game reactions to your actions, gives your choices an effect outside of the level you're currently on. It does encourage a specific play style but that is deliberate. The outsider is a malevolent force, who doesn't care for this world. He gives you these powers that come with a cost. Getting the good ending requires to resist the temptation. That's the point.
Do not cite the deep magics to me, I was there when they were written. I grew up on System Shock and Deus Ex, and that's exactly why I found Dishonoured so hard to get into. Those other games gave the player a complete free choice in how to approach them, but Dishonoured doesn't do that. It presents an apparently wide open field, but the moment you pick a particular path and set off down it, the game wags its finger and says "Oh no, not like that. That's not how you're supposed to play."
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I think I'm the only person who played through the entire game and didn't like it. Yes, yes, I should probably have quit but I'm a bit of an optimist and hoped it would get better.
It felt to me like the game really didn't want me to kill anyone. However it had any number of fun ways to kill people and then scolded me when I was naughty enough to (gasp) use them!
Also the rats were bizarrely low poly compared to everything else. Odd gripe, perhaps, but given how crucial they are to the setting it felt strangely shit.
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Dishonored is one of the few games that I've turned right around and played through again after I beat it. The gameplay is just so free. It's not really the biggest map ever, but it is so dense and easy to navigate. I also haven't experienced a lot of titles that just ooze atmosphere the way that Dishonored does. The art direction is off the charts, and I think it's aged pretty impeccably. It's always a good idea to do stylized over realistic, at least if you want your game to stand the test of time.
The Thief vibes were stellar in Dishonored, I liked it more than Dishonored 2 to be honest! Dishonored had the right amount of stealthy gameplay, places you could hide easily without too much issue. I succeeded most levels as a ghost or with few kills, solid stealth gameplay!
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Damn, I should really go back and play this. Bet it runs great on Steam Deck too!
That's a great idea. Lemme add that to the queue. Right after I finish Hades 2 and baldur's gate, and expedition 33 and...
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