and this has led to a rampant monopolisation of the init system.
You will be shocked if you find out that virtually every distro runs on the same kernel. Pure monopolisation! For the freedom to choose!
this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2023
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You will be shocked if you find out that virtually every distro runs on the same kernel. Pure monopolisation!
FUCK! What's next? Everything using glibc?
I'm a proponent of musl with Alpine, Gentoo and Void. I'm all for it.
I’m a proponent of musl with Alpine, Gentoo and Void. I’m all for it.
Not binary compatible with gibc, so I guess it's a victim of the glibc monopoly then.
I'm just waiting for GNU Hurd to be viable myself.
I hear it's completely ready but they only built an ipv6 stack so as soon as everything finishes the quick migration to ipv6 we can all switch to it.
every distro runs on the same kernel.
Still it is super easy to change the kernel in an installed and running system, but compare that to the real PITA to change the init environment on the same system.
Last time I tried it was an apt install followed by a reboot. If your distribution claims to support several inits and it is harder than that: Your distribution did a poor job.
But that kernel is still some version of Linux. Good luck installing the Darwin kernel or FreeBSD kernel on arch
@ultra @NeoNachtwaechter why would you want to do that?
I only gave that example to prove my point
@ultra you proved you’re just looking for an excuse to hate these systems.
The person I replied to said that it's really easy to change the kernels on distros, but hard to change the init system from systemd. However, most custom kernels on distros are just Linux with patches, but the core functionality and API are mostly the same. I'm pretty sure it would be easy to change the init system to a fork of systemd with some extra patches.
I don't have any issue with other init systems, the only reason I use systemd is because NixOS was built to use it.
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Ring me when systemd starts phoning home to Microsoft and/or installing random microsoft-related packages without my consent.
Whilst I don't think that will happen anytime soon, I do not like how RedHat handled CentOS. With that said, I don't think they are about to put their flagship init system on a testing-only OS (at this point), but I don't know what they will come up with
To M$ maybe not, to RH... dunno.
Remember when Google's DNS server address was hard-coded in systemd-resolved? Good times, what a laugh we all had.
Systemd-networkd (not systemd the init system) defaulted to the google DNS servers when:
- the admin did not change the configuration
- the user did not configure anything
- the network did not announce anything
- the packagers had not changed it as they were asked to do
- the distribution actually decided to switch to networkd. Few have done somtomthis day.
That is indeed a serious issue worth bringing up decades later.
The main thing that turned it into a serious issue rather than just a stupid thing to joke about was that Poettering refused (as of five years ago) to admit that it was a mistake.
Why would he? It never was an issue.
It's just one more annoying little thing to go on the big list of items to be corrected when setting up a systemd-equipped system, but more importantly believing that it's acceptable to just leave it there demonstrates extremely poor judgement to a degree that makes many of us doubt the trustworthiness of the entire project. Perhaps in 2013, or whenever the decision was initially made, substantial numbers of people were sufficiently clueless as to think that adding in the possibility of inadvertently having your system quietly direct all its DNS queries to Google was better than the more obvious alternative of not doing so, but after everything that's gone down since then it's quite hard to imagine why anyone would stick up for such a bizarre point of view today.
Where are those "many of us"?
It is what the CI uses for testing. If several layers of people decide to not do their job and you have no hardware in your network that announces the DNS servers to use like basically everybody has, then those CI settings might leak through to the occassional user. Even then, at least there is network: Somebody that can't be arsed to configure their network or pick any semi-private distribution will probably prefer that.
Absolutely no issue here, nothing to see.
the packagers had not changed it as they were asked to do
Were they really? Or were they told "change it if you don't like it"? Genuine question, and it would make some difference.
But in either case I'm sure not all of them did, and failing that it is all down to the one person (or worse, one team of people) administering the system. Badly configured networks resulting in DNS problems is not exactly rare, but that is beside the point. It's clearly wrong no matter how uncommon is the situation that makes it materially detrimental.
Poettering now works for Microsoft
systemd has no copyright assignment or CLA. Poettering could work for Putin and systemd as proper Free Software project would not be affected that much.
this has led to a rampant monopolisation of the init system.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
That's literally the opposite of a monopoly. You can make a fork of systemd now and call it lemmyd.
monopolisation of the init system
That's the one thing about systemd that is sort of nice. We don't really need to have more than one init system, and it does a sufficiently comprehensive job of being one. If it were only an init system and nothing else, there basically wouldn't be any remaining complaints about it by now.
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If you don’t want another CentOS-style “oof, sorry, off to testing” debacle
The major difference is that the CentOS project is basically owned by redhat while systemd isn’t. I do not get this argument. Systemd makes it easier for EVERYONE instead of having to port services across init systems. Unless your alternative has compatibility, I won’t use it.
-- because it's not an argument; it's a vague association of imagery with no explanatory content.
What does Poett.'s current employment have to do with anything, though? Guido van Rossum (Python) & Simon Peyton Jones (Haskell) work at M$; I believe the guy who started Gentoo went on to work there likewise. Same with the lead dev of GNOME. I despise M$ as much as the next man; but correlations like these reek of guilt by association.
Good alternatives: Devuan, Slackware, Gentoo.
Gentoo took the better approach, imo, you can choose your init system. Done.
Indeed. I'd add Void for runit and the BSDs to the list.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
To be honest, I somewhat enjoyed this talk
might want to look at the more "advanced" distributions that let you choose the init system.
Yeah, sure... integrating a init system is a huge task (if you want to do it properly). Let's do that several times!
Obsolete tech gets phased out all the time. Why do so many people want to treat systemd like some kind of conspiracy? Where's the hate for Wayland, or x86_64?
I don't have a very high opinion of x64 either, but that's for a different post
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