this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2023
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Unpopular Opinion

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I miss reddit (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by csm10495@sh.itjust.works to c/unpopularopinion@lemmy.world
 

Warning: This is a rant.

I don't really know how to describe it but the content isn't quite where reddit had been for me. Also the comments are kind of weird at times, like they type of person here doesn't quite seem as 'normal' as what I'm used to from reddit.

There's a lot more open source and privacy focused people and conversations. A lot of people seem to hate on big tech and big companies in a sort of toxic-ish feeling way to me (not to say the other relationship isn't toxic.. just saying). Random conversations go into: "omg your privacy is lost cause you used a Google service." Then we have the 'if we don't defederate with Meta the world ends' conversations. I personally would like to see what Meta does in the fediverse.. maybe it will make it more normalized..idk. Then the: "if your app isn't open source its awful and terrible for the world" people.

Like that stuff is all fine, but it just isn't quite my cup of tea.

These things remind me of that one person in my comp sci classes in college who I just couldn't stand talking to. He would try to make you feel like an idiot by trying to sound all self righteous and smart. (Honestly he would fail and would generally look like a dingus).

The bulk of the content that gets comments seem to be mostly meme atm. At least on all (7/10 of the current top for me are memes). I like my memes, but would like some more breadth/depth.

Like I hope Lemmy continues to grow and hope it gets better, but it leaves me missing reddit at the moment.

In a perfect world I wish reddit corp wasn't such assholes and this whole thing didn't happen the way it did.

I'm completely skipping the UI and stuff not being as familiar and the various outages/bugs/etc since that's to be expected with something at this stage.

Please don't hate me :) Just sharing my unpopular opinion. Though I genuinely wonder if others feel the same way.

/Rant

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[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 87 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It’s mostly the technically adept people here, we’re naturally more aware of security/privacy issues present in tech spaces and are angry that the masses are so oblivious or uncaring of the problem. Especially when that problem keeps ruining our online spaces or putting us at real world risk by letting apps use their cameras/mics/locations all the god damn time

[–] Brkdncr@kbin.social 19 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Not everyone that is technically adept agree with your statements.

[–] Lovc@kbin.social 19 points 2 years ago

Not everyone but probably most people that are technically adept, and even more so those that have switched from reddit to lemmy

[–] UdeRecife@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 2 years ago (4 children)

True. Not everyone agrees. Since I'm just me, I can only speak for myself.

With this in mind, I would like to hear reasons why you or others don't agree. I ask in good faith.

Having an opinion is as natural as being human. I see the world through my eyes, think about in my brain, color it by my life experiences. So there's always the possibility that I might be missing something important. Perhaps you were persuaded by some strong and much valid point or points.

If that's the case, and if you're willing, can you please share why you disagree?

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[–] s7ryph@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Privacy is always a trade off. You have to find a sweet spot that fits your convenience and willingness to share.

A good example is home automation. I can get a camera from someone like Nest and it’s cheap, feature packed and simple to use. But it’s going to harvest all your data and videos.

Instead I could go with Logitech and Apple. Now the price is 4x higher but the videos only exist on my Apple cloud. This is more secure but still could have security concerns, and increased costs and effort.

Lastly I could go with something like ubiquity. Another drastic increase in cost, with less features for remote access. But you host your videos locally and are in complete control. This option is by far the most complex to set up as well.

None of these are inherently bad if you understand the trade off. I am accomplished in tech and I choose the middle option because it best fit my lifestyle even though I could have went with the last option.

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[–] papafoss@lemmy.world 53 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The whole purpose of Lemmy and the feddiverse is to be anticorpate.

I have been a foss fanboy most of my life so it's a welcoming community and concept. But I get how weird it would be to suddenly join a community that basically says the mainstream way of thinking is wrong when it comes to the Internet.

That said I think Twitter Reddit and Facebook have all proven that it is. Centralized homogeneous platforms are just bad. Once you're passed the fomo effect it becomes clear that they are not necessary. They are just tools and should be thrown away when they are no longer useful. Reddit could of maintained its status quo and we would all be there. Instead they felt they were "essential" to our lives so they could do what they wanted. It's just not and this instance of Lemmy is just as disposable.

Lemmy will become more mainstream and more like old reddit with the addition of ppl like you. Variety is the spice of life so I think that's a good thing. As someone who has lurked on Lemmy for years I can tell you it's changed dramatically in just a couple weeks. Mostly for the better.

[–] Prethoryn@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I love that your response is informative to a degree relating to your experience, and you kept a leveled positive response and even tried to understand where the OP. Is coming from. As someone who used Reddit for 7 years going on 8 I saw a lot of changes on that platform and I can say I love the idea of the Fediverse and I wish I would have spent more time on Lemmy.

However, I saw a post where someone described Lemmy users as anarchist and it made me cringe and laugh a little. Since I have been on here I have seen a lot of, "the mainstream world and mainstream supporters of platforms are lost and the world is lost and we must put an end to it."

Coming from a digital forensics/security/IT background. My way of thinking has changed some over the years about my data and privacy. However, what I have found is that every platform has its issues like normal. For me it isn't so much an issue but people using the Fediverse have some form of mentality that they have a portion of the internet figured out and the anarchy and push against the mainstream is some bigger plan. The truth is, at least to me, the Fediverse actually seems like a security nightmare. Being a part of a community that understands other aspects of the internet doesn't make you invincible to the problems exemplified by other portions of the internet. The Fediverse is popular in its own way because it is small.

As you said it is disposable. You aren't an anarchist because you can put down mainstream ideas. You are also in another world of hurt if you think anarchy works at all. History it doesn't. Neither does libertarianism and libertarians are just anarchists that don't want to admit they are anarchist.

I am fairly new to the Fediverse but based on what little I have seen and know I do also understand where OP is coming from. The users of some of these. Platforms are very strong and forward thinking and in people's defense they aren't entirely wrong. But some of the people on the platforms seem to think they have a portion of the internet truly figured out and that kind of thinking makes you vulnerable.

[–] papafoss@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Alot of the greater FOSS community as a whole is a little defensive.

There was a time when Microsoft tried to kill linux and the open source movement when it was in its infancy. Back then it was literally MS saw a competition and wanted to crush it. While times have certainly change for example Facebook basically made BtrFS good. People still haven't forgotten that a corporate giant once tried to destroy a passion project out of pure spite. So any move in that direction is considered an affront to the core ideals that make up FOSS. The way telemetry is looked at in the linux community is a good example. Even though there are valid uses of telemetry most linux users hate it and would rather a project die than include it. Its a bit of slippery slope fallacy mixed with tribalism.

I dont run across anarchist sentiment that often I would say its more communal. The endless dream of the 'year of the linux desktop' is a good example of this. I have been using linux as my desktop operating system for 18 to 20 years now. In that time it went for installing linux was tech wizardry and right of passage to a child can do it. What made it change is that the community desperately wanted to have that 'year of the linux desktop' when your average jo could take part in what we were passionate about. So devs removed as many barriers to entry as possible to make it so anyone could join in. While we still haven't had that year yet my quality of life as a linux user has improved dramatically. Installing, maintaining, fixing and updating a linux environment has gotten so good that I find that Windows seems cumbersome. But those improvements where not done for me they were meant to bring new members to the community because the community desperately wanted to grow. It took a long time for the community to come around to the idea that linux isnt just for the nerds. I think the fediverse is in a similar boat now where the users want this cool thing to grow. But with growth comes change and people are almost always afraid of change. So there are a vocal few trying to convert others to there way of thinking so things dont change. Which is a pipe dream.

Also people really do confuse privacy and security. I use linux because I like my privacy and don't feel like I get enough benefits when I give it up with Windows or MacOS. That said I also use gmail because I need the buisness I handle on a daily secure not private. I dont care if google knows what I shop for as long as they dont let anyone get access to my bank login.

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[–] eugenia@lemmy.world 41 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I will reply as someone who in 2015 had 340,000 followers overall in the big social media of the time (tumblr, insta, fb, flickr etc). I was the world's most popular collage artist at the time (not an exaggeration). I even got selected by NYTimes for having among the "best book covers of the year" in 2016, among other works for many magazines etc.

Long story short, for an artist to make it without a gallery (I despise the whole idea of galleries because they force you to make the same kind of art all the time), they must base their business via social media. There's no other way. And so I did, and did well. Well, come 2017, the enshitification of these platforms started happening. Nothing was chronological anymore. And since I'm not a person who shows what they ate today, or making it all about myself (I was only posting art, not personal stuff), their new recommendation algorithms destroyed my business. I used to make thousands per year to sustain my life, because each time I'd have a sale, people would SEE my post about it and if they liked my art, they'd buy. Now, my posts are served to about 1/10th of my followers, and no new users find me, because hashtags aren't embraced for finding new users anymore, everything's just recommendations. Within 5 short years since the big algorithmic, I was now making only about $100/month via my art. And that was not just for me, but 95% of other artists and photographers out there too. The recommendation system of all social media (including youtube now) only promotes a few superstars in any given field, not everyone is getting their share fair of exposure based on chronology. Many online small businesses don't work anymore because everything is not a fair field anymore. Even buying ads doesn't make a difference.

So, I have no interest in using things like Threads, where you are literally bombarded with celebrity and brands content, but almost none of the people you follow.

Reddit has followed the same line, it's just that we see it less, because it's more discussion-driven. But similar changes have happened to it -- in spirit. I still use reddit only for 3 sub-reddits that are too specific and don't have enough people for here yet. I don't use the rest of reddit.

On top of that, I'm not interested in trackers, ads, and everything that eventually lead to enshitification of these platforms. So now, I only use federated services. I have accounts with lemmy, mastodon, pixelfed, peertube, nostr, matrix, etc.

No, none of my friends are there (my husband has a mastodon account, and that's it). And I don't care if they aren't. When I'm with my mom next time I'll install a matrix client for her too, so she can call me for free (so we don't have to use fb messenger, the only big app I still use, so I can talk to her in Greece for free). Then, I won't need of these big social media apps.

As for my business, it will never come back (especially now with AI art). But at least, I have MORE eyes here on the fediverse than I have on the big social media. I posted a new painting on my pixelfed yesterday, and it got 17 likes, out of just 27 followers. On instagram I usually get 70 likes out of 3600 followers (that's on my illustration account, my other, collage account, had nearly 170,000 followers in its hey day). And consider that Pixelfed only has 160,000 users (plus federated via mastodon by some instances). Given that amount of likes on the fediverse, if Instagram was still chronological and hashtags were still bearing importance as they did in the past, my posts there could have about 5,000 likes -- given their 2+ bn users. Instead, with their recommendation engine, I get only 70 likes, and no new followers. So proportionally, I get more eyes on the fediverse, than I do on the big social media. So why would I want to go back to big social media? Just to be served Kim Kardashian content that I never asked for it? I won't.

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[–] becool@kbin.social 38 points 2 years ago (16 children)

not to be a dick, but good riddance to anyone implying meta isn't an unethical, monster of a corporation that is defined by it's opportunism, serves only it's own interests, and has forfeited any and all good faith it may once have had. trust them at your own peril, and go back to reddit.

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I'm sorry, but to me, it's not normal to be transparent to the bones for big tech. It's not normal to be pushed around by big tech just like Spez, Elon and Zuck do it with their userbase. It's not normal to be the product and to be followed around, often even without consent.

It's the opposite of normal to think that this is normal. To me, people who think this is normal nave been successfully brainwashed by big tech. Think I'm wearing a tinfoil hat? Okay, go ahead.

But if we don't finally step up against shit like that, it'll only get worse.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 31 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Asshole about open source anti big tech here. Point taken. You can choose your communities you see on your home feed. Seriously, use the block user feature too. Block me if you want. It is not personal. I have a half dozen people blocked just because they have been negative and I don't want to see it any more. With around 150k people here rn the total communities are still developing. There are several I miss but don't want to mod or churn content by myself to get started. This is still mostly unsettled early adopters. Everyone here is going through the same series of breakup withdraw emotions, and everyone is a weird asshole user to someone. Most of us mean well. You are able to steer the conversation too. Post, and help making the conversation you want to participate in.

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[–] toasteranimation@lemmy.world 29 points 2 years ago (1 children)

trailblazers are always ‘weird’. Open source and privacy people BUILD all this software for everyone. As soon as millions of people rush in, you won’t even notice the weirdos anymore

[–] gunslingerfry@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] user1919@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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[–] MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

This is a fair take.

Due the circumstances right now, we've got more tech and privacy minded people, as well as more "principaled" folk, so we definitely skew a certain way.

I'd say give it time. Imo, things will sort of water down if more people keep joining. (For lack of a better term)

But I will respectfully disagree, I'm kinda enjoying it, and I'm not half as smart as some of the people on here, but I do totally understand your perspective.

[–] gunslingerfry@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Obviously also new here. What you are seeing, honestly, is that the communities that have the most activity. This is what the majority of the users here want. Can you really blame them? You came to a preexisting community that had one thing in common. The federated social networks are explicitly anti-faang, that's their reason for being. We're just here because Reddit took away our stuff. It's on us to make the content and the community we want. They welcomed us.

[–] soft_frog@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago

Yep. The reason the fediverse exists is to solve the ownership problem of big social network companies (ranging from privacy issues, to greed, to political influence), so naturally the group that uses the fediverse first are the ones that feel most strongly about that issue.

It really isn't hostile here 95% of the time, but on the topic of Meta it's like poking a hornets nest.

I know my family and most people don't really care about the privacy settings of Meta and I don't bother trying to convince them to change, but I will always enjoy shit talking them to like minded folk online.

[–] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 18 points 2 years ago

Yeah I'm hoping this place continues to grow. It's only been a week and things have drastically improved from when the protest first started.

[–] ScreaminOctopus@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 years ago

I think the culture is different here for a few reasons. I checked out lemmy a few years ago when I saw a hacker news post about it, back then it was almost entirely technical people who were entirely opposed to corporate social media, and a lot of tin foil hat type privacy discussions. On top of that, if you look at a lot of the older instances like lemmy.ml and hexbear.net you'll find a lot of tanky communities that were displaced by corporate social media. These older and more established subcultures are probably shaping the culture to this day. I think their influence will fade as the fediverse becomes more popular.

Second, the threads thing is the Big Event on the fediverse right now, and everyone is talking about it. I addition to the groups I mentioned earlier, a ton of the lemmy user base just came from reddit, and I can't even count how many "fuck meta because privacy etc." conversations I've seen there. This is the same way everyone was talking about the reddit migration to lemmy constantly a few weeks ago and filling up the front page. This will probably blow over in a week or two. Reddit has stuff like this happening all the time as well.

Third, I I'd say lemmy and the broader fediverse is self selecting for the more tin foil hat privacy obsessed types due to the barrier for account creation being higher. Why wouldn't someone choose the more popular, more reliable, easier to on-board app if they don't care about privacy? The API changes were definitely handled really poorly, but a drop in content quality from poor moderation still remains to be seen. The subs I was frequenting definitely became less active as the protest dragged on, but a lot of them were open source focused communities. I don't think everyone has noticed the same change I have. Most people on reddit don't really care about it's drama.

[–] weird_nugget@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I really don't mean to be offensive but if you miss it why don't you go back? No one is forcing you to be here. If you don't care about the concerns we have on this side then just go back, reddit is still there for you.

[–] Mitrian@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

While I hear where you’re coming from, I would not chase away anyone just because they have a different world view or perspective, or wants to see something different than what’s here today (as long as it’s not toxic, of course). Having diverse opinions and experiences is what makes many conversations compelling, otherwise you end up in the same echo chambers that corporate owned social media have fostered.

OP, don’t go back, you came here for a reason. Have patience and understanding, and contribute to the areas you personally want to see grow, and it will come around.

[–] weird_nugget@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I didn't mean to say he MUST go back. All I'm saying is that if he likes something he doesn't need to feel pressured by everyone else who thinks different. He likes reddit so why not use it? It is as if I stopped eating pineapple on pizza (yes I am one of those) just because a lot of people hate it.

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[–] Ech@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If you're uncomfortable with the content you're seeing, you should be more active in moderating that. Block users, block communities, stick to your subscription feed, etc. People in these spaces so often seem to resign themselves to having to deal with content they don't like when they can absolutely change it on their own.

Take more autonomy in curating your experience here and you'll have a much better time.

[–] Nollij@lemmy.fmhy.ml 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

(Not OP)

I miss the Reddit that was destroyed in June. I don't miss the Reddit of now, and won't be going back. But OP is completely right on all of it. Unfortunately, we were all left scrambling for a replacement, and Lemmy has non-trivial barriers to entry for most "normal" people. Sure, those of us that are tech-savvy got through it (and are still dealing with the major bugs and deficiencies), but so much of the old experience just isn't here.

It's not the existence of shitposts and memes like 196; it's the lack of other content. r/HomeImprovement is often cited in articles about the blackout and how big/important it is. Conversely, !homeimprovement@lemmy.world is still just a fraction of the old Reddit community, and discussions are limited and (generally) disappointing. Similar stories about Woodworking, AMA, etc. LegalAdvice (for better or for worse) was one of the biggest subs on Reddit, has just 57 subs on Lemmy. The sub for my IRL city (1 million+ population), which was one of the best sources of local information, might as well not exist here.

There's no way to moderate that content into existence, and there's only so much you can contribute to that content to get it started.

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[–] pyromaster55@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Lemmy right now feels like reddit from the early 2010s. The community is still quite small, it's mostly still early adopters and folks looking for an alternative to big social medias, which attracts a different crowd than the mainstream.

It's actually a hit of nostalgia for me, I'm kind of into the weirdness and intimacy of a smaller community, but I certainly understand where you're coming from.

One of my favorite niche subreddits has over 600k members, the biggest equivalent community has about 350ish users here, there's a certain quality that comes with that quantity of users.

But if we stick with it more folks will join and we can make this place into what we want it to be, and that's pretty cool imo. Lemmy is still in it's infancy compared to reddit, and it's not perfect, but I think we can build it into something even better, and missing the good parts of reddit can inspire us to make sure that we incorporate them into lemmy in the future.

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[–] 34@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Is you are looking for a Reddit alternative and are not liking the Fediverse I suggest you try Squabbles

[–] SharpMaxwell@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

only thing i really miss from reddit is how large it was, it was way easier to find a decent sized community for more niche interests, it feels like here there is only equivalents to the popular subreddits, which is fine, but those were the last places i ever used or visited on reddit.

[–] DudePluto@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

He would try to make you feel like an idiot by trying to sound all self righteous and smart. (Honestly he would fail

Are you sure you spent time on reddit? This was all I saw there

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[–] moon_matter@kbin.social 10 points 2 years ago

Catch-22. If you have an issue and you don't speak up then nothing changes. I don't think there's any way to have these conversations that isn't uncomfortable because it's understandably asking people to make radical changes. Especially because those people feel they have to be "louder" since they're going against the grain.

I don't know what the solution is TBH.

[–] crazyminner@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

"I personally would like to see what Meta does in the fediverse.. maybe it will make it more normalized.idk." Meta won't normalize the fediverse, people educating themselves and understanding why we need the fediverse will normalize it. Meta/Threads will kill the fediverse, this is a known playbook companies use to kill things they can't buy.

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[–] steal_your_face@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago

I disagree. Upvoted.

[–] Yubishi@lemmy.one 9 points 2 years ago

This is a worthwhile rant. I believe as the masses divest themselves of centralized services the types of dialogue that take place on the fediverse will even out. Currently how the federated world stands is similar to the early days of reddit, which was a home for the tech crowd.

[–] anon@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago

I miss it too - the curated experience after years of filtering out the crap and muting the nonsense, the sleek UX in Apollo, and the many friendly and familiar voices left behind who didn’t make the switch.

My advice would be - don’t give up on the Fediverse just yet. It will take a bit of time for the dust to settle and these multiple federated communities to find their voice. Like on Reddit, don’t ever browse /all - it’s just a litany of low-effort memes. Be deliberate about which communities you sub to, and browse by /sub. There’s enough quality content here to fill a feed, though perhaps not in any single community where the critical mass has not yet been reached to offer fresh content throughout the day.

[–] Snowman44@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

I miss how big reddit was. There were so many niche subreddits that were active. A lot of them are still active now, but I also don't want to support spez.

Lemmy will get there one day.

[–] Paralda@programming.dev 8 points 2 years ago

You can't trust corporations to not ruin a product eventually. The reason federation and FOSS is so important is that it strips the power dynamics that typically corrupt online spaces. Is it perfect? No. But reddit didn't become shitty because of individuals making bad choices, it became shitty because it had to.

[–] RocksForBrains@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago

I miss it too, but I'm not going on the Reddit app. I was happy without ads on baconreader for a decade. Some motherfuckers always trying to ice skate uphill.

[–] IronDonkey@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I agree a fair amount - I've been aggressively blocking communities far more than I expected. Seems like many are focused on being anti-something rather than pro something.

I will say, that's one thing I miss about the default subs reddit had. A few were annoying and I unsubscribed, but most were inoffensive and mildly entertaining.

So my reddit experience was "scroll default subs, rarely subscribe to a niche sub, go to niche sub directly sometimes".

Whereas here I'm scrolling all, and more and more edgy anti-capitalism or angry atheist or anti whatever communities that I'm not interested in keep popping up every day, and I keep blocking them.

Don't get me wrong, it's still entertaining and informative. But I'm hoping to eventually craft a subscribed list of communities that's both a) not just an echo chamber for what I believe, but also b) isn't likely to have randos go off on rants against fairly normal things that just barely tangentially related to the topic at hand.

Hope I get time soonish. But until then, I feel you.

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[–] Willie@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Be the change you want to see. If you have something to say about a post that isn't a meme, pop in and leave a comment on it. If you don't want to talk about Meta and Open Source Software and privacy, then don't interact with those comments.

Or at least that's the way I see it.

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[–] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

I like this as I think it actually is pretty unpopular. A lot of people are here on the merits of the fediverse and decentralization but I will be honest, I’m here because Apollo doesn’t work any more. I probably would have stayed at Reddit had they just worked out reasonable API pricing.

I enjoy the benefits of the fediverse now that I’m here but I’m not here for ideological reasons either

[–] Zilliah@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I'm with you, I miss it too. Lemmy and it's instances confuse me, but I'm doing my part by doing my best at avoiding Reddit since I'm strictly a 3rd party app mobile user.

We will wait it out together and hope it gets better (I'm so tired of seeing crap about Meta and Threads).

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