this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023

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273

Hamas leaders say they have no regrets after the October 7 attack and the goal was to 'overthrow' the status quo (www.businessinsider.com)

submitted 2 years ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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More than 10,000 Palestinians have been killed in the month since Hamas' terrorist attacks inside southern Israel, the group's health ministry in Gaza says.

But Hamas officials say the mounting death toll, believed to include thousands of children, has not caused the group to regret its actions in southern Israel, which Israeli officials said killed 1,400 people.

In fact, Hamas leaders say that their goal was to trigger this very response and that they're still hoping for a bigger war. It's all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world's attention to the Palestinian cause.

Hamas, these officials say, is more interested in the destruction of Israel than what it sees as the temporary hardships faced by Palestinians under Israeli bombardment.

"What could change the equation was a great act, and without a doubt, it was known that the reaction to this great act would be big," Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the group's governing politburo, told The New York Times in an interview.

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[–] shatal@lemmy.world 42 points 2 years ago (10 children)

Unfortunately it seems that they will get what they want.

Israel has been bombarded with nearly 10,000 rockets, ballistic missiles and bomb carrying drones over the last month - from Gaza to the centre, Lebanon to the north and Yemen and Iran to the south. In addition there are almost daily terror attacks coming from the west bank.

There are civilian fatalities every day there. A school was recently hit and destroyed from a ballistic missile hit. Thankfully the city that was hit moved to online studies due to the threats so it was empty.

The only reason we don't see a death toll of thousands of Israelis is due to extreme defence measurements including the evacuation of more than 250,000 Israelis from the north and centre.

The whole situation is just escalating by the day and the massive attacks are fuelling Israelis rage.

Both the Houthis and Hezbollah hinted a massive attack tomorrow. Another serious hit to Israeli civilians will send this whole thing over a cliff.

[–] QuarterSwede@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

The IDF rarely shows mercy. I don’t really understand what the surrounding countries are thinking. If they want to escalate things to remove the status quo they certainly are. But at what cost?

[–] Crashumbc@lemmy.world 31 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Both sides are religious fanatics. You can't reason with a fanatic

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[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

I think they're trying to get Israel to act in such a way that they finally lose the American support. Israel currently gets to do whatever it wants without consequence because the US will seemingly back them unconditionally. Also, many countries, people, and organizations are afraid to criticize Israel because they get called anti-Semitic. But I think that only works while Israel can manage to convince people it's the "good one".

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[–] greenmarty@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

Those radicalized will be happy to die in name of their God. If civilian dies depending on their religion they will be rewarded by their God or infidels will be punished. So in their mind as long as many people die its a win.

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[–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 41 points 2 years ago (2 children)

In fact, Hamas leaders say that their goal was to trigger this very response and that they're still hoping for a bigger war. It's all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world's attention to the Palestinian cause.

"This was our plan all along!" Lol? At this rate there won't even be a Palestine to pay attention to...

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 56 points 2 years ago (2 children)

“This was our plan all along!” Lol? At this rate there won’t even be a Palestine to pay attention to…

Try and remember where things were prior to the attack. There was a legitimate movement happening where people were starting to recognize the apartheid state that Israel had set up. The conversation was materially shifting to focus on the abuses of the Israeli government. Things were happening that seemed like the whole thing could come to resolution without Hamas being involved. The terrorist attack was as much about maintaining the status quo of conflict as anything else. Hamas and Netanyahu both had their power waning as a function of the failed strategies both have been employing for decades. The attack reset the clock for both of them. It justifies Israels decades of shitty policies that have objectively compounded the situation and made it much worse, along with justifying Hamas position about this being a war for survival. Both hawk factions benefit from this, no people benefit from this.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

When someone gives you knowledge— Listen. Thank You.

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[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Palestine isn’t the point. Destroying Israel was the point. And the more this goes on, the more likely other countries (such as Saudi Arabia) are likely to step in and go after Israel. Which could result in the destruction of Israel.

That’s my understanding of what this article was about anyway.

[–] RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip 17 points 2 years ago

As long as Israel has Uncle Sam parked off the coast there is no destruction of Israel happening anytime soon. The us could decimate every nation surrounding Israel and then some, probably with just the assets we have in the region alone. They know that so there won’t be any mass attack on Israel. Hamas planned to trigger Israel into a genocide and then have all of the terrorist groups/ Muslim nations launch an attack on Israel. They want a massive world war. But that’s just not happening with where global politics are at. The us is going to provide the protection for Israel to do essentially what they want. We are too chicken shit to pressure Israel into stopping this genocide so we are stuck.

I expect to see terrorist groups in all of the surrounding nations continue to try to trigger a global conflict by attacking Israel and US assets in the region, but its just unlikely to go anywhere.

So Hamas poked the hornets nest, gets nothing but thousands of their people dead. Israel is revealed to be the hard right genocidal dictatorship we have all known it to be. The US continues to sink millions into foreign wars. Round and round we go.

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

And the more this goes on, the more likely other countries (such as Saudi Arabia) are likely to step in and go after Israel.

No way would SA sacrifice their sweetheart deal with the US to do this. They are dependent on the US for security. This is about proxy sectarian politics between moral enemies Saudi Arabia (Sunni, ally of the US who is Israel's pal,) and Iran (Shia, backers of Hamas and Hezbollah.)

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 8 points 2 years ago

Not to mention, SA probably isn't stupid enough to attack with intent to destroy (relevant because a state being under credible threat to survival is the kind of scenario usually given for that state actually using weapons of mass destruction) an almost certainly nuclear armed state, especially one that is close enough by to have no time for warnings or interception, and especially when they have no equivalent weapons of their own as deterrent.

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

SA has already shelved normalization plans with Israel that took years for the US to broker.

[–] LaLiLuLuCo@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

They called the white house in the last few days and said normalization was a go to continue.

The stuff they say publically to win PR points with the common folk is not what the monarchy actually thinks is the best idea.

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[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

Hamas spokesperson Taher El-Nounou told the Times that, rather than end with a cease-fire now, his group would prefer for the conflict to expand.
"I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders and that the Arab world will stand with us," he told the Times.

I suspect Hamas's attack will cost Palestine many lives and more land but will not lead to a greater war. Every other time their Arab neighbors went to war for the Palestinians it did not work out well for them; Iran is likely to continue to put pressure on Israel via Hezbollah rather than blow their load with an all-out attack and lose their regional bargaining chip.

It's all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world's attention to the Palestinian cause.

This may have stalled recognition by Saudi Arabia but things will normalize again once Gaza is pacified. Israel and the US are better international allies to have than Palestine.

[–] JoeHill@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

Every other time their Arab neighbors went to war for the Palestinians it did not work out well for them

Not just didn’t work out for them. The PLO turned around and tried to overthrow two of the neighboring countries: Jordan in 1970 and Lebanon in the 80s.

[–] bioemerl@kbin.social 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Turns out a mass terror attack on a nation rarely benefits the attacker or the nation that was attacked, normally with the attacker coming away worse than their better armed opponent.

It's basically 9/11 all over again. But on a smaller scale and with a Middle Eastern nation far happier to be brutal on the targeted side.

Saudi is probably more annoyed at Hamas for getting in the way of their plans than they are considering cutting off their deals.

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[–] MxM111@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago

At this point it is possible that Iran actually plays a role of pacifier with Hezbollah. If conflict is to expand, Iran might get its weapon and centrifuge factories destroyed. It does not need that. It gets no any advantage out of this and with possibility of US being involved it risks additional sanctions.

[–] ThatFembyWho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Curious to see how their apologists will spin that.

Every dead Palestinian Muslim is a martyr to Hamas, no? Every life just another tool to accomplish their religious-political objective, which afaik is solely the destruction of Israel. Or ask yourself why they intentionally link their paramilitary network to schools, hospitals, private residences and such.

Say whatever you want about Israel and Zionism, Hamas are NOT "the good guys" here and never have been. Their actions are indefensible. No amount of whataboutism changes that...

[–] UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

I've yet to see anyone defend Hamas's actions, even from comments that have been reported by others. What people do say is that Hamas's actions does not excuse Israel's military committing the atrocities that they are doing. Sounds like you are making up an antagonistic group that aren't really seen on Lemmy.

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[–] ItsMeSpez@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Unfortunately it is entirely possible for there to be no good guys at all. Take a step back and realize that you can choose not to take a side in every issue.

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[–] avater@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

yeah Hamas bad. always

[–] SirToxicAvenger@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago

lolwat?! they had no chance to do that. what's going on now is basically directly their fault. wow.

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The status quo of actually having people in Gaza? Because at this rate, there won't be anyone left.

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