NFL

Not fat enough.

People were shitting on Shula his last few years. People just like to minimize coaches accomplishments if the team feels sluggish or not living up to their potential. In the case of the Pats they hitched their fortunes to a subpar QB and subpar WRs.

Also do people think that Brady came into the league and was immediately a HoF QB?

Belichick was the only constant throughout the dynasty. He was the one that took the chance on Brady and developed him

If Bill Belichick is a bad coach then there's no such thing as a good coach.

Just take it from the fans of teams that had to play him every single year, twice a year. He's a defensive mastermind, who got fairly lucky getting a QB like Brady, but probably would've been a very successful coach even without him. Together they were simply unfair

one bad season

He’s 80-94 without Tom Brady as his starting QB.

People need to be quiet. Pats fans calling for his head are the worst kind of fan. Fairweather fans. Just sit down and eat the shit. We enjoyed 20 years of excellence it's time to roll in the mud.

Points Scored is a bad metric to differentiate defense from offense. EPA is much better. Scoring 3 points after an int gets you to the 97 yards is not good. And conversely a defense stopping a drive that started at the 1 due to a great punt isn't a great defense. Use EPA per drive.

*has gone

I think the discussion should be if he's an elite coach or just a good coach. I refuse to believe a team can get that many rings and have anyone with any real decision making ability be a fraud. I don't like him and love to watch him lose, but he'll always be a good coach.

sees 58 comments in 16 minutes

Grabs popcorn, sits back to watch chaos unfold

People who unironically think Brady made Bill need to go revisit that first SB run.

Brady becoming elite years later masks that from being one of the worst QB’s to ever win a ring.

Its just casual morons who don't understand the game. OMG Brady brought them back single handedly from 28-3. Absolutely no help from Belichicks defense holding the MVP and best offense in the NFL in the second half

What I've always found interesting is the lack of credit Bill gets for developing Tom into Tom. People make like Tom Brady, the 6th round pick, was always destined to be the greatest QB of all time. Isn't it entirely possible that without Bill Bellick, Brady is just an average QB?

On the Brady v. Belichick argument, what gets me is that if Brady had been drafted by most other teams, I highly doubt he would’ve had the career he did. FFS, Bill held him as a 4th QB his rookie year. which was fucking INSANE. They made each other and there’s no way to know what either pf their careers would have been like without the other

I've said it in another comment, but the most important advantage the Patriots had was Brady's wife Gisele. Brady making less money than his super model wife allowed him to take less money compared to his peers and allow the Pats to allocate that would-be cap space elsewhere.

Your whole post is spot on and I couldn't agree more.

But this part

But one poor season in 23 years does not call for some of the revisionism occurring here lately.

It's not one poor season we are going on #4 poor season. And most people have no problem with him as a coach, its his GM duties that hurt him.

Brady threw the best game of his career on the biggest stage and yet this "defensive mastermind" couldn't stop a backup QB from snatching it from the jaws of victory because he was so self-absorbed he benched his star corner over some minor personal tiff, lmao.

Meh.

I’m not suggesting he was a bad coach, but a history of cheating & having Brady as QB made his legacy. He is not great. Period

I was hoping the Pats would fire him and he would join us a DC just to spite the entire NFL.

I mean yeah no one with a functional brain was saying otherwise. Rest of this sub needs to visit a doctor

One bad season? What planet are you living on? Did you forget he was shit coach before Brady and after Brady? He's never been good without him. You're forgetting his time before the Pateiots. Dude isn't a good coach and we're finally staying to realize.

Ok Bill

People love to make this "Tom Brady vs Bill Belichick" but in the span of time they were together, the Patriots literally were the most dominant force in football. And the second closest wasn't even close. I don't think it's fair to force you to choose one. It really was both of them.

The Patriots missed the playoffs by a total of 1.0 games from 2001 to 2019 (lost out on tie breaks in 2002 and 2008... 0.5 for each). They played in almost a full season of AFC Championship Games (13). The next QB is Joe Montana... with 7. In 2019 there was a stat that only three teams had not played in a wildcard game since 2010. It was Bucs, Browns, and Patriots. (you might want to re-read that...)

"It's just Brady" ... (close your ears, Browns fans) prior to their playoff win in 2020, the Cleveland Browns' last win was in 1994. Their coach? Bill Belichick. The opponent? The New England Patriots.

No one is close to the Patriots dominance in the era of the NFL Draft, Salary Cap, and Free Agency. While many credit Brady with the success on the field, part of the reason why he was successful was because he wasn't saddled by bad contracts and players who were passed their prime but were team legends. He might have been wrong some of the time, but no one spent the salary cap money more effectively than Bill Belichick. It's what makes the deals like Adalius Thomas stand out so much.

I think we could go on for hours (days?) highlighting stats of how insanely dominant the Patriots were for almost 2 decades. Would they have been without Tom Brady? No. Definitely not. Would they have been without Bill Belichick? I don't think so. Peyton Manning doesn't either. I also think there were other supporting cast members that were critical. I give him a shoutout literally every chance I get, but Dante Scarnecchia could (should) be in the Hall of Fame for what he did with the Patriots OL during this era. We haven't had anything close to the level of talent development on the OL since he left. I feel bad for the coaches that follow him because he set an impossible bar. Tom Brady might have had a quick release, but he had an hour to throw the ball a lot of times, too.

I could go on.

Is it time for Belichick to move on? Unfortunately, probably. I think some of his greatness has entrenched him in places where maybe he shouldn't be. He's getting older, so stretching him thin might not be the best. Nor might it be good for him to have control of the offense - something Brady hid well. He's an abysmal evaluator of offensive skill players.

I'm just worried what will happen when he moves on. I know I'll be mad watching him take a new team to the playoffs again.

Wasn’t it revisionist we glossed over all his cheating?

This is the case for everything now - recency bias is as bad as it's ever been, and people are super reactionary and have no patience anymore. In the TNF game thread last week, several people were suggesting Najee Harris is the most disappointing RB to ever come out of Alabama, like a guy named Trent Richardson doesn't exist.

HAS WENT

not far enough. NOT FAR ENOUGH

This sub: lol “regress Pat Mahomes to the mean” what an idiot

Also this sub: If you throw out 35% of the Super Bowl era Bill Belichick is an average coach.

Great coach maybe the best especially on defense. But has been the worst GM in football for over 10 years now. He did this to himself by taking more and more responsibilities.

One thing I don't see talked about enough - think about where the Pats have been drafting - towards the end of rounds - for 20 years. It's insane to build such a consistently competitive team when you are rarely getting a top 20 pick for so long

As a Giants fan, if the Pat's kick Bill to the curb, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him back in New York idk if he'd be a long term solution but he can definitely steady the ship.

Tom Brady continues to live rent free in some peoples head.

Brady getting a ring instantly after leaving the Pats while Belicheck consistently does nothing tells you all you need to know

Belichick has done nothing since the GOAT left him. Sub .500 record, no future for the team, very few cornerstones to build around (all of them on defese). He set up his QB to fail with the worst coordinators in history last year, and has draft record is as good as it's been in the last 10 years (worst in the league).

Idt it’s gone far enough tbh

I'm not a Belichick fan, but this is true.

Brady's success came with playing well with good defenses. His move to TB was gain skill WR and an elite Defense.

Bill was a head coach before and after Brady. What is his record in those time-frames?

The issue is Bill PICKED his QB. Bill Belicheck might be a good coach but goddamn does he suck as a GM

8 rings

It’s okay man Bill dominated the NFL for 20+ years. People will hate him. It’s not that deep

Bill has full control, and yet the team has been on the downtrend the last 3 seasons.

At what point is it too much to keep going with the same coach?

Even in week one or week two, when the Pats defense was still at full strength, BB dialed up a defense that Tony Romo said he had never seen before. That to me is absolutely insane.

2-7

If you want a better laugh, there’s been hypothetical situations in the bears sub recently and Belicheck was brought up and there were multiple upvoted comments about how belichek has always been a fraud and bears would be a joke to have him as a coach. Mental illness is a real thing

Bill has always been a slightly above average head coach who lucked into a few more super bowls than he deserved. He isn't an awful coach or anything, but he's also nowhere near one of the best.

This is a fair and correct assessment.