NFL

People give bill too much credit for the 2nd rams Super Bowl.

Swap Mcvay and Belichick, patriots still win probably by more.

Swap goff with Brady, patriots have no chance

Until Belichick proves he can do something without Brady this will be the narrative. As of now, he’s a losing record head coach without Brady

The argument that he was never a good coach is ridiculous. That type of sustained success with so many players besides Brady coming in and out is no fluke.

Now there is an argument to be made that he's no longer a good coach, or that he should be fired, but his resume speaks for itself.

I think we can all agree Brady is the best qb of all time and elevated everyone around him

The answer is BOTH. It took both the greatest coach of all time having the greatest quarterback of all time to produce the unprecedented success the Patriots had in this century.

The percentage is irrelevant. Neither would be what they eventually became without the other.

Me when people start shitting on any Boston franchise.

I feel like the only people dogging him only watched football since 2014 or so hence all of the "without Brady he's bad takes"

Bill is a terrible GM, if that loses him games then it falls on him

Anything other than In Bill We Trust is bandwagon bullshit as far as I’m concerned. That man gave me the best 20 years of my sports life, the least I can do is stick it out with him as he closes the lid on his career over the next few years.

He also fucked the jets harder than anyone in history which buys him all the good will I possess.

Every legendary coach that sticks around long enough will see the game pass them by. As a Steelers fan, I immediately think of Chuck Noll, whose 80s teams were a shadow of their 70s dominance.

I think we’re addicted to responding to bullshit, so more sports heads are shoveling it for “engagement”. Anyone acting like players and coaches don’t have a symbiotic relationship isn’t acting in good faith and should be ignored, imo.

It's honestly getting ridiculous. Like yes BB isn't what he used to be. But that doesn't remove everything else he did. Just like Peyton Manning having a noodle arm at the end doesn't make him a bad QB overall. We won our last SB by keeping the Rams to 3 points and scoring 13. Brady didn't win that super bowl alone. And yes BB has really struggled as a GM for a while. But it wasn't all Brady during the dynasty. Welker was a top 5 WR. Gronk the GOAT TE. Wilfork being Wilfork. Dont'a Hightower sacking Matt Ryan and stopping Lynch at the goal line. Edelman being a first down machine. Our current roaster has no top end talent. At least not with Gonzales and Judon out with injuries. Add a couple of those players to this team and we at least have a fighting chance.

Too many of these fans are new and didn't live through 2 decades of their team fumbling around and getting stonewalled by the Patriots.

There's a reason 47-17 is as loved as 13 seconds is loathed around here

HAS WENT

The problem with Bill is not that Tom Brady made him great. The problem is that he is drafting and trading and acting like he still has a QB that makes 5th-7th round WRs look like 1st rounders

People just have a lot of pent up rage over the 20 years of Patriots dominance. Let them have their fun. Everyone knows Belichick is the best coach.

It’s not 1 poor season. It’s 4 middling-to-poor seasons since Brady retired.

Winning a ton of championships can get you a lot of slack, but how much before you decide to actual compete again with the franchise? 5 middling-to-poor seasons? 7? 10? Should we throw away an entire decade of Patriots football?

4 seasons is a long time to rebuild a team that shouldn’t have needed a lot of rebuilding outside the QB. Belichick gets double the blame because he’s both failing as the HC and the GM at the same time.

“Brady made him”.

Literally haven’t seen anyone seriously claim this. Feels like you’re making up things to argue against.

I remember when the narrative was that Brady wasn't the goat because Belichick was the reason for all the success with his elite defenses.

Now the narrative has swapped because Brady became more likeable to the rest of the league.

I think your post belongs in r/nflcirclejerk

.463

LEAVE BILLY ALONE!!

Remember when the Pats blocked a dolphins kick and everyone overreacted the other way and said he had revolutionized special teams? Shits embarrassing both ways haha

Freakin nephews

I can’t believe the discourse coming from some of the Pats fans

A good NFL coach is a super super unique asset and we’re treating the GOAT coach like he’s a parasite

Don't be a prisoner of the moment. After Bill retires and some time passes all this chatter will fade. The people who matter, the people who played the game and coached the game, know that Bill is one of the best ever.

But as I said in a comment in an anti-Bill thread earlier today, isn't everyone bored of this?

It’s not 1 poor season. It’s 4 middling-to-poor seasons since Brady retired.

Winning a ton of championships can get you a lot of slack, but how much before you decide to actual compete again with the franchise? 5 middling-to-poor seasons? 7? 10? Should we throw away an entire decade of Patriots football?

4 seasons is a long time to rebuild a team that shouldn’t have needed a lot of rebuilding outside the QB. Belichick gets double the blame because he’s both failing as the HC and the GM at the same time.

Where can I see the list of average points per drive for QBs? I’m a Chargers fan who isn’t sold on Rivers to the HOF but his ranking there is impressive.

ESPN: Coach Prime to replace Bill Belichick?

Whenever I see BB slander like he was carried by Brady I know that person knows absolutely nothing.

I’m just salty he whooped our ass for so long so yes, I’m hating on him

Yeah dude is clearly a defensive genius, drafted Brady, and put together some teams that could actually survive without Brady if he was injured or suspended. Maybe the league just became to qb centric he hasn’t been able to draft one

Man people truly are overly sensitive on Reddit

He should probably start spying on teams again so he can win some games

As a pats fan, there's no point in defending Bill. It's his job to take the hit when things go badly, and it's the players fault for all of the success. It's part of the gig, and Bill said it himself... performance is job security. You learn to tune out the noise, anyone can have an opinion or a podcast these days and call it journalism.

You don't have as much success as the Pats did with a bad coach. It's just impossible.

Like others have said, it’s both. One thing people don’t look at enough is how Brady’s talent effected how good those patriots defenses were. Seriously. Look at the history of Patriots draft picks during the Brady era and you’ll see they were predominantly defensive players, including many many key franchise pieces. Brady’s skill allowed the patriots to focus more on defense in drafting and FA.

One of the best defensive minds of all time, but he’s not a good GM unfortunately

He deserves to be slandered. The guy had coaching life before and after Brady that is mediocre at best and woefully overrated. At this point, it was more Brady than BB.

Further, my biggest issue is Bill has no coaches that have impacted the game. Every other great coach has a real tree with a philosophy. lambo, Shula, Lombardi, Walsh, Reid, etc. Bill is the only one who has had assts do Jack shit. That is the biggest indictment of his system.

The fact that on Dec 6, 2021 Billy B beat the Bills by throwing three passes cements his legacy as the goat coach

The guy won a Super Bowl playing Troy brown at cb, we can end the argument about Brady carrying him with that point.

He would be swooped so hard by other teams if this happened. That dude is a genius, and one bad season is not a signifier his system isn't working. He's made mediocre coordinators better, mediocre QBs better, and unless he's retiring he will always have a job somewhere.

Bill is still the best HC in the NFL imo. Unfortunately, he has one of the worst GMs(himself) in the NFL providing him with subpar talent. Brady covered for this on offense, HC Bill covered for this on defense, and combined, they made for the GOAT dynasty.

Brady got the last laugh by going to a stacked, well coached team and winning another Ring, while Bill takes all the heat for not winning with a shit team. But let Bill have his pick of teams in the NFL to go coach next year, and I'd be willing to bet he makes it to the Super Bowl in this unprovable hypothetical. The Patriots play better than they should on paper, and every Bill coached team will, but that only goes so far. Until he steps down as GM, or hits on the next Tom Brady, Bill is going to continue to struggle to put up wins.

You can’t give him as much credit for the defense when you sink as much draft capital into it as he does

One thing that complicates this and to remember is that if your offensive is really good it makes you defense better in some cases. They get to rest longer between possessions. If you score often or have a big lead, the other teams offense needs to be more desperate, throw more, force more plays, stray from their game plan. Just a thought to add to what is a pretty complex overall analysis.

Michigan fans are rubbing off on Patriots fans this week.

Where’s our notorious BB hater at?

I believe Brady also had one of the best offensive lines in the league for most of his career

Also the AFC East was historically bad for the last 20 some years so the Pats almost always got 6 easy wins a year.

He is literally the greatest defensive coach of all time and I don't think even the biggest BB haters can contest that.

But for anyone who thinks Belichick is some chud who was totally carried by Brady, I'll ask this: what would a great coach have done with the GOAT? Win 6 Super Bowls? Make it to 13 Conference Championships? Have a win percentage over 75%? Belichick did all of that.

Bill has always been a slightly above average head coach who lucked into a few more super bowls than he deserved. He isn't an awful coach or anything, but he's also nowhere near one of the best.

This is a fair and correct assessment.