this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
21 points (86.2% liked)

Python

7256 readers
1 users here now

Welcome to the Python community on the programming.dev Lemmy instance!

πŸ“… Events

PastNovember 2023

October 2023

July 2023

August 2023

September 2023

🐍 Python project:
πŸ’“ Python Community:
✨ Python Ecosystem:
🌌 Fediverse
Communities
Projects
Feeds

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

This is a discussion on Python's forums about adding something akin to a throws keyword in python.

all 12 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] palebluethought@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Aren't checked exceptions in Java generally regarded as a bad mistake?

[–] Nevoic@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago

Yes, but not because the goal of having exceptions in types is bad, rather Java's type system isn't advanced enough to support the ideal solution here.

Scala 3 is working on experimental capture checking capabilities, which allows functions to express certain capabilities (file access, networking, db, etc.), and CanThrow capabilities (e.g exceptions at the type level) are one reification of this.

The CanThrow docs I linked have a good introduction into why Java checked exceptions are bad, and how Scala's alternative is far better. Essentially it comes down to a lack of polymorphism in checked exceptions. In practice this means they're incredibly verbose outside of simple usecases, and with a very easy escape hatch (RuntimeException), you don't even get the guarantee of knowing a function without checked exceptions doesn't throw.

Python will also have this latter issue. Python's "typing" in general has this issue actually. Types aren't validated unless you use an external tool, and even then Any is a leaky abstraction that can hide any level of typing errors, unlike in properly typed languages where it's not leaky. You need it to be leaky in gradually typed environments, or you wouldn't be able to use a ton of the Python ecosystem, but this vastly reduces the effectiveness of the typing solution.

I don't know if Python's solution here will address the lack of polymorphism that Java's solution has, I'll have to look into it more.

[–] SittingWave@programming.dev 2 points 2 years ago

I heard the same, but not sure why. Do you have a link?

[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

When I used to write Java and switched to Python, this was one of the things I missed. It was always quite clear which exceptions I had to catch (or not). Just today, I ran into the issue of trying to cover the exceptions a library could throw without using except: or except Exception as e, but finally gave up and gave in to it. The linter wasn't happy, but fuck it.

[–] Maoo@hexbear.net -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

My counter: let's throw Java into a pit

[–] tnuctip@mastodonapp.uk 0 points 2 years ago

@Maoo @onlinepersona
That's unfair. Java did everyone a huge favour by giving a practical demonstration of why (mandatory) checked exceptions are awful.

[–] Sigmatics@lemmy.ca -3 points 2 years ago

Yeah, let's not. This is not a good idea