this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2023

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Communism

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-22

the dprk question (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 2 years ago by big_spoon@lemmygrad.ml to c/communism@lemmygrad.ml

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something that puzzles me about reactionaries speaking about north korea or any communist country, is the idea that they have a dictatorship so powerful that people aren't able to fight against it, movies and spectacles accused as "staged" or "if he/she fails he/she will die with his/her family". the typical idea of enemies "being weak and uberstrong at the same time", like damn...if people in dprk were under a dictatorship so brutal as they say, you would hear more about uprisings and strikes more frequently than in USA, are you trying to tell me that the only "efficient dictatorships" are the communist ones? that capitalism isn't able to keep people like pinochet or hitler more than a couple of decades and with constant revolts and a huge media industry? ok...

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[–] Elara@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 years ago

Are you using facts and logic?? TANKIE! I FOUND A TANKIE!!

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Jeez, why are brain-dead anti-AES takes having more upvotes than downvotes on this post?

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Brigading. r/communism is basically just r/socdem, so those folks come here expecting they can be just as ignorant and American as they are on reddit.

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I’m just surprised more people are brigading than here naturally via the vote ratio earlier

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago

I might be using the term wrong. It is probably just redditors finding communities that they assume are exactly like reddit, then being mad they aren't and trying to turn lemmy into reddit. Probably not actually any organised thing going on here.

[–] exbot@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (4 children)

It seems like you assume there is a direct relationship between how brutal a dictatorship is and how often people revolt, but I don't see why that would be the case.

An important factor in how people resist their government is the risk/reward of doing so. Do they understand that revolt can create change? Do they fear for their lives?

My understanding is that in North Korea, it is very likely that speaking out against the government will result in years or decades of jail time. Information there is also tightly controlled, so people do not believe such action would be productive anyway. I think a person would not want to revolt given those conditions, even if they are not happy with their government.

Simply put, they do not know things can be better, and they wouldn't know how to make them better if they did.

[–] big_spoon@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

An important factor in how people resist their government is the risk/reward of doing so. Do they understand that revolt can create change? Do they fear for their lives?

well...maybe we should ask the russians in 1917, or people under pinochet, cubans under batista et al

[–] exbot@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I would argue the people in every case you just listed were far more aware of the reward of revolt, which is half the equation. All of those dictatorships had existed for less than 15 years before another revolution or similar event had taken place. The people remembered a better life.

North Korea has some of the most effective information control seen this century, and their government has held uninterrupted power spanning 50 years. They are arguably the single most extreme case in modern history of a population that is ill-equipped to revolt.

[–] big_spoon@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago

"All of those dictatorships had existed for less than 15 years before another revolution or similar event had taken place. The people remembered a better life" oh c'mon now...what about french revolution? what about the change into capitalism from feudalism? "North Korea has some of the most effective information control seen this century" yeah, because north koreans are too stupid to know about the world under the eye-that-sees-everything of ~~sauron~~ kim family

[–] lntl@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Simply put, they do not know things can be better, and they wouldn’t know how to make them better if they did.

This sounds like the White Man's Burden. The people who live in DPRK are well-equipped to know what makes a happy and healthy life. They're not any more brainwashed/blindly obedient to "the party" than people in the West are.

[–] exbot@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The people who live in DPRK are well-equipped to know what makes a happy and healthy life.

What a strangely intentional choice of words. I was talking about their awareness of how their government could/does treat them. You've changed the subject to their awareness of...happiness and health?

Part of living a happy life is not living in fear of your government. To deny that North Koreans live in fear of their government is to basically ignore all of the information we have from the people who lived there.

[–] lntl@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 2 years ago

The only standard that applies is the happiness and health of the people. Saying that they "don't know" or "wouldn't know how" dehumanizes the people who live there.

There's disgrace in describing people this way. Do better.

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago

All the information we have shows great happiness and prosperity of the population even against the odds of being cut off from the world by trade embargos.

[–] simply_surprise@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

My understanding is that in North Korea, it is very likely that speaking out against the government will result in years or decades of jail time. Information there is also tightly controlled, so people do not believe such action would be productive anyway.

What is this understanding based on?

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Probably heard it on Fox News or on a Facebook post. Ignore what these capitalist trolls spout

[–] simply_surprise@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's fun to nibble the bait sometimes, just to see how strongly their line is set. :)

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The worst part is when you fall for it and think there's someone with a brain on the other end, so you waste time treating them like a human being instead of just pointing and laughing at a clown.

[–] simply_surprise@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah, it can be frustrating. I think it's worth treating it like a bit of theater.

You're not talking to a person, trying to convince them (that doesn't work). You're showing the couple of lurkers here how silly that viewpoint is, and how rad we are.

Or just taking the time to be a feral weirdo to a lib who's used to the usual liberal fetish of politeness in tone over everything else. Either way works! 😁

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago

Yeah, I'm all out of patience at this point, probably just going to do more of the latter, it's way more fun.

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago

Why would someone revolt in a country where their needs are provided when the other option can be seen where it is not? The DPRK provides for its people and revolting would lead to destitution and ruin. The citizens are not morons. The know how things are. They value their freedom and safety so of course they wouldn’t revolt agaiant a government that provides that.

[–] Izzent@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

Look at all these clowns.

[–] STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

lmao I really don't think the DPRK reports honestly about the amount of uprisings they squash. And their citizens are scared to fight back because they know better than anyone of their government's ruthless nature. Protests are a symbol that one has freedom to protest.

[–] big_spoon@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

so...DPRK army is BETTER than the US army? it sounds kinda embarrasing that an army fueled by imperialism and "civilized first world" is shadowed by an army of a "poor communist s**thole" in the ability to squash their own rebels

[–] STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

You missed the last part about freedom to protest. Protest in DPRK and you get injured or imprisoned. Protest in the USA and you get made fun of.

But yeah that doesn't matter to you cause you're obviously arguing in bad faith so go back to your little hole. And don't quote people on things they didn't say.

[–] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago

Protest in the USA and you get ~~made fun of~~ the shit kicked out of you, teargassed, and sometimes even abducted in black vans.

FTFW

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Go back to watching your Fox News

[–] STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

im liberal you're just stupid

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Me thinks you don’t know what liberal means…

[–] STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

me thinks youre alt left

just cause you like communist authoritarian governments doesn't make me not a liberal

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Again, go back to your Fox News and quit trolling leftist spaces

[–] STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

you've failed to make any argument, just empty quips (kind of like conservatives do)

you're not leftist you're an authoritarian apologist

you are the troll that should not be welcome in progressive spaces

[–] Cruxifux@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

The US reports blatant lies constantly about DPRK, you think they wouldn’t be showing that shit EVERYWHERE every time one was squashed if it was happening all the time?

Of course they would.

[–] astropenguin5@lemmy.world -5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Dprk apologia? Really? I knew y'all had problems but this is further than I thought it went

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 years ago (5 children)

They're evil baddies! We shouldn't learn about them! Learning things is evil! Like them! Better to just trust everything we are told about the evil enemy. Life is much easier when someone else tells me who is bad and who is good and I don't ever question why they tell me things, or what they aren't telling me.

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[–] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 years ago

I know, right? What kind of monster supports necromancy?

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Go back to watching your Fox News

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