this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2024
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We are reading Volumes 1, 2, and 3 in one year. This will repeat yearly until communism is achieved. (Volume IV, often published under the title Theories of Surplus Value, will not be included, but comrades are welcome to set up other bookclubs.) This works out to about 6½ pages a day for a year, 46 pages a week.

I'll post the readings at the start of each week and @mention anybody interested.

Week 1, Jan 1-7, we are reading Volume 1, Chapter 1 'The Commodity'

Discuss the week's reading in the comments.

Use any translation/edition you like. Marxists.org has the Moore and Aveling translation in various file formats including epub and PDF: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/

Ben Fowkes translation, PDF: http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=9C4A100BD61BB2DB9BE26773E4DBC5D

AernaLingus says: I noticed that the linked copy of the Fowkes translation doesn't have bookmarks, so I took the liberty of adding them myself. You can either download my version with the bookmarks added, or if you're a bit paranoid (can't blame ya) and don't mind some light command line work you can use the same simple script that I did with my formatted plaintext bookmarks to take the PDF from libgen and add the bookmarks yourself.


Resources

(These are not expected reading, these are here to help you if you so choose)


@invalidusernamelol@hexbear.net @Othello@hexbear.net @Pluto@hexbear.net @Lerios@hexbear.net @ComradeRat@hexbear.net @heartheartbreak@hexbear.net @Hohsia@hexbear.net @Kolibri@hexbear.net @star_wraith@hexbear.net @commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net @Snackuleata@hexbear.net @TovarishTomato@hexbear.net @Erika3sis@hexbear.net @quarrk@hexbear.net @Parsani@hexbear.net @oscardejarjayes@hexbear.net @Beaver@hexbear.net @NoLeftLeftWhereILive@hexbear.net @LaBellaLotta@hexbear.net @professionalduster@hexbear.net @GaveUp@hexbear.net @Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net @Sasuke@hexbear.net @wheresmysurplusvalue@hexbear.net @seeking_perhaps@hexbear.net @boiledfrog@hexbear.net @gaust@hexbear.net @Wertheimer@hexbear.net @666PeaceKeepaGirl@hexbear.net @BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net @PerryBot4000@hexbear.net @PaulSmackage@hexbear.net @420blazeit69@hexbear.net @hexaflexagonbear@hexbear.net @glingorfel@hexbear.net @Palacegalleryratio@hexbear.net @ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml @RedWizard@lemmygrad.ml @joaomarrom@hexbear.net @HeavenAndEarth@hexbear.net @impartial_fanboy@hexbear.net @bubbalu@hexbear.net @equinox@hexbear.net @SummerIsTooWarm@hexbear.net @Awoo@hexbear.net @DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml @SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net @YearOfTheCommieDesktop@hexbear.net @asnailchosenatrandom@hexbear.net @Stpetergriffonsberg@hexbear.net @Melonius@hexbear.net @Jobasha@hexbear.net @ape@hexbear.net @Maoo@hexbear.net @Professional_Lurker@hexbear.net @featured@hexbear.net @IceWallowCum@hexbear.net @Doubledee@hexbear.net

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[–] Stpetergriffonsberg@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

"Use values cannot confront each other as commodities, unless the useful labour embodied in them is qualitatively different in each of them."

Is there any use in thinking about commodities with overlapping use values, (like gold and silver) as in the same category but with different qualities? Or should I just think about them as different commodities all together? Does it even matter either way?

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Gold and silver are qualitatively different and that's that. They require different amounts of labor to produce (and perhaps method, idk) and they have different uses. For example, the James Webb space telescope has gold-plated mirrors — silver has different chemical properties and would not satisfy the same function.

Whether something is a use value, or is not, is determined by whether it is consumed and therefore reproduced with regularity by an established industry.

[–] Stpetergriffonsberg@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

Thank you for clarifying, I got quite in my own head with it but that helps clear it up stalin-approval

[–] Parsani@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The way I understand the way Marx is using "qualitatively different" is both in its obvious form, gold and silver (as simple commodities) are different from one another, but importantly that it is about qualitatively different forms of private labor confronting each other in exchange. If I am spinning, weaving and tailoring my own coat, neither the wool, thread, linen, or coat confront each other as commodities in exchange even if they each have a use-value, but once you have a division of labour, those use-values can confront each other as commodities in exchange.

(I'm struggling to word a more specific example when considering gold and silver as commodity-money, so may be someone can jump in with that.)

The rest of the quote you posted seems to get into this.

In a society whose products generally assume the form of commodities, i.e. in a society of commodity producers, this qualitative difference between the useful forms of labour which are carried on independently and privately by individual producers develops into a complex system, a social division of labour.

and another in the paragraph before:

“The totality of heterogeneous use-values or physical commodities reflects a totality of similarly heterogeneous forms of useful labour, which differ in order, genus, species and variety: in short, a social division of labour. This division of labour is a necessary condition for commodity production, although the converse does not hold; commodity production is not a necessary condition for the social division of labour. [...] to take an example nearer home, labour is systematically divided in every factory, but the workers do not bring about this division by exchanging their individual products. Only the products of mutually independent acts of labour, performed in isolation, can confront each other as commodities.” p 132 (Fowkes)

This last part is interesting to me when you think about how large firms operate even today. If a single firm produces multiple of its own inputs and outputs, they do not actually confront eachother as commodities (in a market). As an aside, one of the more compelling arguments against the ECP has been its own critics inability to determine exactly where it becomes impossible to calculate production as one firm gobbles up another firm which produces its own input.

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[–] Bioho@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

This a channel I found last year while going through Capital, www.youtube.com/@DissidentTheory/. I think it might be useful for some people.

[–] aaro@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

hi! If I'm anticipating being strapped for time, is this version still sufficient?

https://www.marxists.org/archive/ruhle/1939/capital.htm

As much as I love theory, my eyes 100% glaze over when it comes to dead people arguing minutae with other dead people, and examples based on 150 year old economies and statistics. If the Moore and Aveling translation is definitively better than that's the one I'll read but I know I'll fall off at 50 pages a week cuz I have other book clubs too

[–] Maoo@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

I recommend either reading Marx directly or reading a more modern summaries like those from Heinrich or Michael Roberts.

Now is a really good time to read Marx directly because you can discuss it with other hexbears in the same situation!

[–] Vampire@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

Why not just read that yourself? Or set up another thread.

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[–] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

When I state that coats or boots stand in a relation to linen, because it is the universal incarnation of abstract human labor, the absurdity of the statement is self-evident. Nevertheless, when the producers of coats and boots compare those articles with linen, or, what is the same thing with gold or silver, as the universal equivalent, they express the relation between their own private labor and the collective labor of society in the same absurd form.

<.<

Am I right in thinking he's describing what "producers" are doing to society and how they're implicitly framing commodity relationships in liberal society? I know LVT was more popular amongst lib economists back then

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Marx highlights this as "absurd" in order to acknowledge that the reader might think Marx has lost his mind when he claims that society does all these crazy mental gymnastics in order to produce. He's saying, "Yes, it is crazy, but it actually works this way."

it's "absurd" because we go through this ridiculous Rube Goldberg of an economic system just to "intelligently" distribute the total social labor. And to be seen, in order for some people to live off of the work of others.

[–] Maoo@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I may not fully understand your question so apologies if I am speaking in a different direction.

In this case, Marx understands value as having a form primarily in exchange and in anticipation of exchange, the idea being to increase total capital through production and sale. Capital becomes represented by the money form so that exchange need not be directly understood as linen yards to coats to hammers, but we also know that money itself, exchange, is representing exactly that. A coat is $50, a yard of linen is $15, a hammer is $20, so they all implicitly relate to one another, at a moment in time, via the act of exchange and via the potential to be exchanged.

Producers, if you mean the bourgeois, are doing this because they want to increase their profits and they (attempt to) understand their costs vs. intended sale values so that they accumulate a larger volume of capital tgaty they will use to "outcompete" their rivals by repeating this process better than them. But we are all subject to this idea of value, as we buy the coat and the hammer (and maybe sometimes the linen), by definition for its perceived use value (Marx didn't try to distinguish an idea of valid or necessary use value from the rest, which was a good call).

[–] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

In the context of that paragraph and chapter, it looks like he's also saying that this idea is absurb and coming from the top down. (well, the last two paragraphs). Like, previously he talks about commodity fetishism where commodities appear to have their labour value imbued into them (abstracted as price), and that's what you see (because of your separation from the actual productive process and the actual laborers that do them) because this is what the producers are doing.

idk if I'm making sense or talking about a real point here.

When I state that coats or boots stand in a relation to linen, because it is the universal incarnation of abstract human labor, the absurdity of the statement is self-evident. Nevertheless, when the producers of coats and boots compare those articles with linen, or, what is the same thing with gold or silver, as the universal equivalent, they express the relation between their own private labor and the collective labor of society in the same absurd form. The categories of bourgeois economy consist of such like forms. They are forms of thought expressing with social validity the conditions and relations of a definite, historically determined mode of production, viz., the production of commodities. The whole mystery of commodities, all the magic and necromancy that surrounds the products of labor as long as they take the form of commodities, vanishes therefore, so soon as we come to other forms of production.

this paragraph, second to last

[–] Maoo@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

The absurdity he first mentions (as self-evident) is the idea of a linen coat as the universal form of abstract labor. We don't go around saying everything literally in terms of the number of linen coats it's worth. "Yeah these headphones were pricey - 2.5 linen coats!" But he then proceeds to say that the existing universal forms like gold are just as absurd in the same way, just not self-evidently (it's normalized for us under capitalism). "Yeah these headphones were pricey - $125!" Why is that abstraction "expensive"? We compare it to our own wage labor price and the prevailing wage labor price, implicitly. Capitalism teaches workers this by their nature of being wage laborers. Capitalism teaches the owner class this through the drive to maximize the volume of profits, abstracting all of their inputs to production as the commodity and its price, including, per Marx, the most miserable commodity (the worker). The universal exchange form represents the abstraction of profit maximization through the capitalist mode of production: the drive to minimize the cost of inputs is quantified through it.

This is an incredible abstraction given what is going on behind the production of even one commodity, turning it into just one number to maximize lest you perish. As a wage worker, your labor price and everything you work with at your job is just a number to be minimized to the owner, if the owner wants to "succeed". This naturally leads to a stark class antagonism. Marx is laying the groundwork for this via the establishment of what a commodity is and how strange of a thing it truly is under capitalist production.

[–] Vampire@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Alright, finished the reading on Saturday afternoon. I read some Prefaces as well, so had extra to

I think this is a good pace. We just keep plodding til the end of the year.

If you've made it this far you are 2.18% of the way through the 3-volume work, and 5.5% of the way through Volume 1.


Marx repeats himself a lot to drive home the point. The chapter is really simple enough, the ideas in it are simple but my word he does go on. The idea is that

                             LABOUR                            COMMODITY
 Abstract & quantitative:  'Socially-necessary labour time'    Value 
 Specific & qualitative:    Weaving, roofing, whatever         Use-value

Commodities can be exchanged for each other at equivalent values. Same socially-necessary labour time: same value. That's simple.

[–] asnailchosenatrandom@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Could I be added to the tag list please?

[–] Vampire@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago
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