this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
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Rights advocates in the United States are urging President Joe Biden to end his administration’s “complicity” in Israeli rights abuses after key members of Israel’s government backed the idea of pushing Palestinians out of Gaza.

Far-right Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich said this week that Israel should “encourage emigration” from the coastal enclave, home to an estimated 2.3 million Palestinians.

“If there are 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs in Gaza and not two million Arabs, the entire discussion on the day after [the war ends] will be totally different,” Smotrich said on Sunday, calling for the “voluntary migration” of Palestinians.

A day later, Ben-Gvir, who oversees national security, made a similar appeal, saying it was “a correct, just, moral and humane solution”, Israeli media outlets reported.

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[–] ClockNimble@lemmy.world 108 points 2 years ago

New fears? New to him? Not New to anyone paying attention.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 73 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

For literal decades Biden has been telling Israel he'll support them no matter what, but they need to worry about the optics of their actions...

He's 100% ok with what's happening, he just wishes they were quieter while doing it.

He's not going to hold Israel accountable, because he knows the only other person Americans can vote for is trump.

So Biden sees no reason to stop supporting Israel, in a moderates mind it literally doesn't matter because the Republicans would be even shittier. Which by some twisted logic means Biden can be just as bad and it's not a negative.

It's a great example of why "not a Republican" can't be the bare minimum for the dem candidate.

[–] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 48 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

'dissolve your democracy' or 'support ethnic cleansing'

Not a great set of choices at the ballots for Americans this election.

[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I mean ... has America ever halted it's eugenics program?

[–] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

Founded upon genocides by slaveholders.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Or here's a novel idea: the candidate who doesn't want to dissolve democracy could dramatically increase his chances of winning by NOT enabling genocide including ethnic cleansing and domicide.

I'd set the likelihood of THAT ever happening at zero a month or two ago, but now it seems he's slowly realizing that enough people actually care more about human rights than empty platitudes and slavish devotion to what's become an apartheid state that he has to change course.

I'd say there's now a 10-20% chance he's going to at least PRETEND to agree that Palestinian lives matter between now and November.

[–] APassenger@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (4 children)

As a someone on the left, few things are as persuasive and soothing as wrung hands.

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I got 2 choices comes November. And nothing significant is going to change our voting system between now and then.

FUCK do these moralists propose I do?! After 01/06, I am more than a little wary.

"I don't like what Biden is doing!"

"Well fuck me, I hate it. Still want a functioning democracy come January 2025?"

Because I'm not liking having an AR-15 leaning on my desk, and a 12-gauge on my nightstand, for when the local Brown Shirts decide I'm "vermin" and they need to raid my house "for my own good". Anyone think that's "radical" or "paranoid"? Got steep yourself in some WWII history lessons.

And BTW, the Brown Shirts will be local, on your street, if Trump wins. It won't be, "Your machine gun gonna fight the military?!" No. All politics are local. Wait and see.

"Mr. Shalafi, look, we're your neighbors, and we know you love you some guns! But times have changed. We just need to collect those up for your own protection. You can have them back once things calm down, pinky swear."

Fuck me. I just got a buncha guns because I like shooting and gunsmithing old crappy stuff. Now that hobby is turning serious. And I fucking loathe that change.

I'm 53 soon, and I cannot begin to express how fucking angry I am to have typed those last sentences.

I know, I know, I was complacent, didn't see it coming. But fuck me, I voted these past decades. And here we are.

I am a peaceful man, but I am not harmless. I'd suggest you gun-grabber libs think on that a moment. Because the other side already has thought on it.

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[–] Sneptaur@pawb.social 5 points 2 years ago

Let me help, it’s more nuanced than that

It’s “dissolve our democracy and support ethnic cleansing at home and abroad” or “support ethnic cleansing abroad only”

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[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (32 children)

He's not going to hold Israel accountable, because he knows the only other person Americans can vote for is trump.

The reason he's starting to pretend to listen is that he's losing in the polls.

Turns out that the electorate has a ridiculously short memory.

Turns out that the "I'm not the other guy" tactic is much less effective for an incumbent than a challenger.

Most shockingly, it turns out that continuing to ignore the rightful moral outrage of as many as half of your potential voters, maybe even more, is an extremely bad idea even if your opponent is objectively many times worse than you.

So yeah, as much as he hates it, he's gonna have to do something different, or at least pretend to, and he knows it.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The reason he’s starting to pretend to listen is that he’s losing in the polls

He's been polling bad this whole time...

And just illegally went around Congress to "sell" weapons to Israel in exchange for a small slice of the billions we've given them this year.

I wish what you were saying was true, because its optimistic

But it's just not what's actually happening...

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

He's been polling bad this whole time...

It's gone from bad to worse in the last couple of months, though.

I wish what you were saying was true, because its optimistic

I'd say that giving it a 10-20% likelihood of happening in spite of him almost certainly being forced to do it or lose is rather pessimistic tbh..

But it's just not what's actually happening

I'm not saying it's happening. I'm saying that the likelihood of it happening in the future has increased from nonexistent to very small, theoretically.

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[–] chocolateo@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

Biden works for the war machine

[–] TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

No. The best information is that they've been putting a ton of pressure on Netanyahu to back the fuck off, but it hasn't done any good because he's a legitimate asshole and always has been. (Remember, this is the same guy who deliberately embarrassed Obama by accepting a GOP invitation to address Congress without consulting the White House or making an official state visit to the president. He's the scum of the earth and always has been. There's zero question that he's hoping for a Trump win.)

They don't want to go public with demanding restraint or a cease fire because they are afraid it will widen the war by encouraging Iran and its other proxies such as the Houthis and Hezbollah which could further hinder freight traffic through the Red Sea, thus bumping global inflation back up and giving Trump a campaign gift. I think at this point it's a lost cause and they need to cut their losses and tell Israel to knock it the fuck off, but I expect they will continue to drag their feet and work on back channels.

We also know that every time Iran has been met with real force rather than empty threats, they have backed off. Ultimately it would still be a big gamble to openly threaten them, but it's something to think about, especially if you don't fancy another Trump presidency/dictatorship.

Most of what we see on Lemmy is pure amateur hour speculation that has only a very tangential relationship with what's actually happening.

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[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 65 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Calm down, everyone! Biden is already acting. He's sending weapons to Israel as fast as he can.

[–] OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago (4 children)

But this is fine because Trump would send them even faster and make the children even more dead. All hail the glorious two party system.

[–] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The Abraham Accords is often cited as an escalation towards the situation we are now in that it tried to politically isolate Hamas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Accords

Maybe the orange man wouldn't make a difference on the arms front, but he is really good at planting seeds for conflict.

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[–] FinalRemix@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

He did say, loud and proud, that he's zionist...

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 51 points 2 years ago

Nothing out of the ordinary here. Just the head police officer of Israel suggesting actual ethnic cleansing in a reasonable tone.

Nope definitely not an evil government.

[–] xenomor@lemmy.world 38 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The only pressure Biden feels is how to feign any concern about anything Israel is doing.

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[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 37 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Are we sure we want him to act?

Might send more bombs.

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[–] BeautifulMind@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago (1 children)

While it's nice to hear that Biden is 'under pressure' about this, I wish it took something less than obvious genocide and a near-global consensus that these are crimes against humanity for any sort of media to register it.

I honestly don't understand why Biden is so hawkish on this; it's not like giving Israel carte blanche will get him support from Republicans, and doing it really does appear to divide the left enough to hurt him politically.

[–] Sami_Uso@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Biden is hawkish on Israel because he remembers a version of Israel that doesn't exist anymore. The stalwart of the Middle East is a shell of itself and it doesn't want the rest of the world finding out. I know his age is a meme at this point but it's worth pointing out here

[–] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It also explains why he treats the GOP the way he does, he's remembering a much older Senate.

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[–] machinin@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I wonder what it would take for Biden to act. The actual bombing and killing isn't enough. Are these statements by Israeli leadership what it will take? I don't really understand what is behind Biden's support at this point.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

Been wondering the same. Traditionally the US has supported Israel, no matter what. But fuck me. Biden has thrown all has cards on the table in support of genocide, and I still have to vote for him. What a clusterfuck.

Meanwhile, Ukraine is fighting our arch enemy and we're bickering about whether to send them more arms. Here's our chance to destroy Russia, once and for all, with not a soldier lost, not even a mildly damaged M4 rifle, and gather all the intelligence in the world on modern combat. Finally. And the GOP won't do it. Reagan is spinning in his grave.

[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That when conspiracy theory come to place. When Biden spoke about victims of hamas attack next day, he was and still emphatic. Yet never spoke about the civilians or kids who died in Gaza. He doesn't sees them.

There are a few options to his actions and looking at all of them they don't make sense. He is not evangelical working towards the kingdom of Isreal to happen. He doesn't need money. He doesn't have relatives living there. Yet he been knowing to be a zainoist since he was a senator.

My conspiracy is that he is blackmailed by Isreal especially when he visited Isreal first time.

Here is a quote about his memory from a few weeks back.

over 50 years ago, as a young senator, I visited Israel for the first time, as a newly elected senator.

"And I had a long, long trip — or meeting with Golda Meir in her office just before the Yom Kippur War. And I guess she could see the consternation on my face as she described what was being faced — they were facing."

To me it is very clear how compromised the us government by Zionist. Senator, presidents, and most of the rich and important companies which ultimately own the media. If it wasn't for social media we wouldn't know much about the suffering that children is going through nor their cries.

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[–] reagansrottencorpse@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I wonder what it's like living in a functioning democracy.

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

It ain't exactly bliss but it ain't this either

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Given what transpires about the US on the international news scene, I'm not sure putting that to a democratic vote would yield the result you expect, sadly.

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[–] TylerDurdenJunior@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago

well color me the shade of anal bleach

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