this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023

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Libs.rs is now closed source (gitlab.com)

submitted 2 years ago by manpacket@lemmyrs.org to c/rustlang@lemmyrs.org

25 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Previously: https://lemmyrs.org/post/175672

I originally had sources and data of the site public, hoping they would be interesting to study, aid in bug reporting, bring contributions, and make site's algorithms transparent.

Instead, I got knee-jerk reactions about lines of code taken out of context. I got angry dogpiles from the Rust community, including rust-lang org members. I don't need to endure such mudslinging. Therefore, the sources are no longer available.

As of right now bitcoin crate is not deprecated, instead libs.rs responds with error 502.

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[–] Vorpal@lemmyrs.org 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

All this drama is sad. I like lib.rs, it has better search results and easier to use UI than crates.io.

If it was me who ran it (and it isn't) I'd probably include crypto results but put a big banner on top of their pages (and small ones in their search results) about me distancing myself from that. The crucial thing I belive is to make it clear what is happening, and to communicate clearly and transparently.

I wouldn't reuse "deprecated" tag, nor use derogatory wording in general. While i agree with the sentiment that crypto is a major problem and rather useless, some of the wording lib.rs has used is rather loaded, and feels like it can be interpreted as akin to name calling.

I found that the best way to reduce drama in my life is to not get sucked in. Say what I think with as neutral tone as possible and leave it at that. Not always easy, but I strive for it (which is what I'm attempting to do here, and why I rewrote some parts of this post after reading it and thinking about how it could be interpreted).

Additionally, I hope the author will reconsider the move to closed source, because I dont think that will solve anything. Rather it risks adding fuel to the fire, since people wanting to argue will point to this and say "look, we have no idea how it works any more, you can't trust it" (or even worse things).

[–] Vorpal@lemmyrs.org 4 points 2 years ago

Some additional thoughts (responding to myself here):

Say what I think with as neutral tone as possible and leave it at that

A hypothetical person might respond to this "But I have strong feelings on subject X!"

To which I respond: consider what effect your words will have. Inflammatory words will just entrench people's position more, in both camps. People on the fence are likely to walk away from the whole thing out of disgust (especially if both sides behave that way) or take the side of your opposition.

Reasoned arguments in neutral tone however will rarely change the opinion of those who strongly disagree with you (there is a slim chance). But it might strike a chord with those who are on the fence.

A tendency for debates to get polarised is a general problem in modern society in my opinion, not just in Rust. Not just politics. Not just media. Pretty much everywhere. I have seen it here on lemmyrs.org as well in the discussion of the drama around lib.rs. But I don't think calling out specific instances would do any good (rather the opposite in fact, as it might easily be interpreted as an attack on the posters person).

[–] robinm@lemmyrs.org 1 points 2 years ago

I can't agree more

[–] Anders429@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

I can't say I'm surprised. I was honestly wondering how this backlash would affect kornel; it can't feel good to get such a negative response on an open source project like this, and I feel bad for him. While I strictly don't agree with the actions done against crypto crates, especially not the marking of an active crate as deprecated, I thought that some of the other reactions to things like marking crates as non-semver compliant were overblown.

Specifically, I think one of the cases definitely was an accident, as it probably was made at a point when it really looked like the author was doing the same 1.0.x format that some other notable crates are guilty of, even thought that turned out to not be the case.

Ultimately, this is a good example of why crates.io is so hesitant to be opinionated at all about anything, which is I think a big reason why something like lib.rs came into existence anyway. If anyone has been wondering why crates.io is so hesitant to stop people from squatting crates names, it's because they would get reactions like this. Being opinionated means things will get political and the community may divide themselves over it.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I wish folks who have so much energy to demonize crypto had a tenth as much passion for tearing down the capitalist system of oppression that keeps us forever working for less than we are worth because we are terrified of homelessness and starvation.

[–] kornel@lemmyrs.org 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm all for it, but I don't see how I could do that with lib.rs in particular. The site already takes a swing at the anarcho-capitalist-flavored plutocracy.

[–] thingsiplay@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago

@manpacket I hate if open source devs do this kind of thing.

[–] Jamie@jamie.moe -4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I was going to say it's a shame, and in a way, I guess it kind of still is. But then I saw the gitlabb issue where the creator treated burntsushi like crap for wanting his packages removed. That makes me feel less bad about it.

[–] kornel@lemmyrs.org 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Why do you say like crap? I took time to understand his position and reasons (which was helpful, because they were different reasons than requests before that). We've agreed on a way forward, and I have fulfilled his wish. It has been a bit frustrating for both of us, because it was in essence a conflict, but I think it's been resolved in a civil way.

[–] Jamie@jamie.moe -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Partway through he started suggesting things that just blatantly misrepresented why burntsushi was asking for his stuff to be removed. Even if he did the reasonable thing in the end, he shouldn't have been so antagonistic about it.

[–] kornel@lemmyrs.org 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

(you're replying to the guy who runs lib.rs and responded to burntshushi in that thread)

The initial request was just a question about removal, without getting into why, so it had no stance to misrepresent. The text I proposed was prefaced with "how about: …?", and based on reasons I've been given previously by other people. That was a question whether that's the right representation, not a statement. I made a wrong assumption, the text wasn't right, so we found a different one that satisfied him.

[–] Jamie@jamie.moe 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ah, I didn't recognize the username. My previous comments were on mobile, so I didn't have both pages open to draw the comparison. Now, I'm not looking to contribute toward giving you more grief than you've already gotten, I'm basically just expressing an opinion on the situation and that's about it. So I'll justify my opinion a little, but leave it at that.

I would agree that originally, asking him how you should phrase the notice was a good gesture. He suggests "'This user requested their work be removed from this web site.' And then link it to this issue?"

Then you respond and recommend "BurntSushi disagrees with sneering at cryptocurrencies, and in protest asked his crates to be removed." in which, while he did say something to that effect, and that is related to the reason, you asked him what he wanted and then completely disregarded his wish to recommend a more snarky message.

BurntSushi actually responds and gives an okay to a more accurate version of what he said.

Then you respond with "[...] so I plan to develop "making a stance for cryptocurrencies" dedicated feature and move both of you there. [...]"

And I read the first portion of how BurntSushi responded to that, and stopped at about that point because the whole thing seemed asinine. It would appear to me that you made him out to be the party in the wrong throughout the entire exchange to that point because he didn't want to take part in your site.

[–] kornel@lemmyrs.org 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The context here is that it was after I had a heated megathread in the bugtracker where multiple people were defending cryptocurrencies on their merits as money, decentralization tool, or an ideal to aspire to.

Burntsushi's objection was different form these, in a subtle way, and I needed more explanation to understand the difference. His phrasing with "sneering" — to me — was not clear (I understood it as "don't sneer at cryptocurrencies, because they don't deserve to be sneered at" rather than "cryptocurrencies are bullshit, but you can't say it so directly and rudely").

Additionally, I did not want to invite another bugtracker megathread about cryptocurrencies, which is why I tested his patience asking for a statement, rather than merely linking to the bugtracker like he asked. I see it as an ask, perhaps negotiation. I don't think that exchange deserves to be summed up as "crap".

Anyway, I'm probably testing your patience too, so have a nice day!

[–] robinm@lemmyrs.org 5 points 2 years ago

Given that both of you (burnedsushi and kornel) have strong and emotive opinions (“snearing must be stopped at all cost”/“cryptos are worst than the devil”), I totally understand that there was some miscommunication, but I found the tone quite civil even thought it felt emotionnaly difficult for both of you, and it seems that it ended in a good way. I do think that both of you did a good job at carrying the convesation to a good end.

I will also use this message to say that I'm part of the silent majority that really loves lib.rs, most notably because it is opiniated. Thanks for what your work.

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