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That's the most important thing to remember about all this. They know he's an abuser. They know he brags about it. They know all the despicable things he's done.
And it's either unimportant to them, or they've managed to become so psychologically twisted that they actually like it.
We have a society being dominated by deeply, deeply broken people right now.
A lot of it boils down to abortion. When you see abortion as baby murder, it would take an awful lot to offset that moral significance. In other words, many who support Trump wouldn't exactly condone rape, corruption, etc, but they feel abortion is a much larger moral issue.
No, it's not about abortion. They are just bad people.
I see where you are coming from but I have direct experience with a decent number of these people, including my mother. She is kind, empathetic and generous but extremely fearful (not just of out-group humans - literally any unknown).
She has trouble understanding cause and effect despite being of reasonable intelligence and competence otherwise. She has been in conservative news circles for 40+ years. As you might expect, she is a straight-R voter for the single reason that she can't risk the lives of pre birth fetuses.
She has an extremely short attention span and short term memory problems. Despite being willing to discuss issues, abortion is such a foundational topic to her worldview there is exactly no chance that she could change her understanding of abortion or Republican voting habits.
Edit: just want to be clear here, I'm a pragmatic anarchist and despise her worldview. However, I feel like it's important to truly understand how people outside your bubble perceive reality, for the specific purpose of neutralizing their terrible opinions
I'm sorry to break it to you, but if your mother is a trump supporter, she's not a good person.
At this point you have to be mentally handicapped to not know the man is an absolute monster, and anyone who supports him is complicit in the monstrosities he commits.
A kind, empathetic person would never vote R.
Everyone is picking the lesser of two evils in our electoral system. If you view abortion as the killing of nearly a million babies a year, what is that evil held up to the evil trump commits? If it was actually babies, I think even most democrats would pick Trump over the party that wants to be allowed to kill a million 1 month olds. Most people just don't view those as the same thing.
I'm not claiming 'morally good' status for her and I personally avoid communicating with her any more than I absolutely have to. I just wanted to add perspective that may be useful for the discussion
Exactly as her preachers told her, I know what you mean. Funny enough, they seemed to neglect all the parts of the Bible that would provide context - e.g. verses saying how workers deserve their wages, how leaders should not accept bribes, and hold themselves to higher standards in other ways too, not just speak the words but truly show love to one another, which nowadays is dismissed by "that's socialism!" (to give a crap about the poor).
And the biggest one of all: Christians are not to judge the world, but are to judge their own, in-group selection, with filtering rules in place. So e.g. if abortion was so bad, maybe excommunicate someone that got one, but don't BAN it in the secular sense. Except they never bothered to do the former? If they truly meant it, then why act hypocritically, as Jesus commanded to be avoided at all costs btw, by allowing abortions in their own communities, but not in those "other" places? (performed by the poors) And likewise, why vote for rather than decry and remove Trump, or at least vote for him while also stating how what he did was BAD?
She TRUSTED her leaders to lead her correctly, and they let her down. The thing is, if she voted, then she also became a "leader", and thus bears some responsibility. Perhaps truly responsible people should implement an IQ test or some such for voting, but as it is, she isn't solely a victim. Which is one of the sadder parts of all of this. She just loves people, and tried to step up and help as best she could - the same as those who showed up on January 6 btw - and they made her complicit in their crimes against humanity. It's becoming "brother against brother", just like the Civil War and fight against actual slavery, all over again, with people in the vast middle ground caught up on either of the various sides, both of which are condoning literal genocide, but not equally bc one is advocating for it specifically here inside our borders.
Sorry if this is a bitter pill to swallow, but literally lives are on the line here, and based on your words I thought you might be receptive to wanting to know that. She's a victim yes, but not only that, if her actions are leading to people's literal, actual deaths.:-|
The basest crime here is how some fucking assholes in like 1953 realized they needed some way to protect their voting base from being logically annihilated any time issues are debated, and laid out the correct strategy to create a separate perception of reality via media control.
You can't even try to discuss how "real Christians" should act because up is down and forward is backwards. It's "tough love" to make kids go hungry, "protecting the family" to hate trans/queer folk. Given the common thread of short attention span, by the time you establish any sort of shared reality, attention span timer is up and you have to start over or give up.
Or were they "smart" to have done so? I think not, but the degree of truthiness in that statement is that it is at least "strategic". But I don't blame them fully, b/c Rome also fell for similar reasons - it is inherent to any democratic society that it can fall victim to internal rather than purely external factors, and likewise that is also the reason that many/most of us will die, b/c of some type of cancer whether the autopsy bothered to go hunting for it or not. They are evil yes, but like a lion is going to eat you evil, it's just the nature of the "game" they choose to play.
Also, and I cannot emphasize this enough: many Republicans (like several Democrats too) are really dumb - like the lion, they do not even realize themselves why they are doing what they are doing. Some stuff (quite frankly, pretty much all of it) just works whether you think about it working or not.
At which point I start to wonder why the other side - liberals - aren't smart enough to have noticed that and tried to counter it? Could it be that they(-ir handlers) also wanted that outcome too? For example, even now there are several states that could pass laws protecting women's rights to medical care... so why don't they? If the only thing going on is that big bad "other side", then wherever that big bad is not, there should be nothing stopping the doing of good works, yes?
Tbf, when the Dems were in charge for a few short months, at the beginning of Obama's presidency, they passed what had the potential to be the biggest reform of our era - the ACA, which affects not only economic matters but those that directly impact literally life & death. Except even there, why include the stuff about mandatory payment for abortions, when a large swath of the American populace was so die-hard against that? They handed the Repubs the ammunition to have elected Trump!!! Did they not know how the other side would respond? Did they not care?! It confirmed every worst fear of the middle-of-the-road people about the heavy-handed nature of the Big Government, which forced even small businesses to provide payments for actual, outright abortions. Ignoring the rightness or wrongness of that fact, it spent a lot of political capital, and left a deficit in place.
And next, following up that decision is this question: at what point in (modern) history has the USA ever had anything other than a cycle between Repubs and Dems in the White House? Therefore what hope did the Dems have immediately after Obama, especially when putting up Hillary Clinton of all people!? And this just after the massively unpopular (in many states) ACA - were they HOPING to lose!?!? Or were they just living in a fantasy dreamland where rainbows and puppies exist, but somehow not school shootings?
Anyway, I understand (somewhat, though I do not agree) why your mom feels the way she does: she was manipulated & tricked, not by her evil nature but by her good one, plus inherent weaknesses. Though that is not to say that the other relevant side in this discussion (liberals/Democrats) are blameless. There are issues with discussing things with people on both sides - though ofc they are nowhere near equal, yet they do exist.
At the end of the day, we are all merely human.
The worst part is how many women are in the MAGA movement. And they don't care.
That's the fun of the "it's not a problem until it happens to me" crowd!
Internalized misogyny is real. When you're absolutely brain dead stupid and have no personality, male validation is extremely powerful. You can get a ton of male validation by appealing to the dumbest ones who would drool at the chance to be in the same room as you.
People downplay that Access Hollywood tape, but he wasn’t joking. He was completely serious. In his mind, he could - and did – literally grab women’s pussies because he thought they’d just let him do it.
Here’s the thing, as an SA survivor, there are several natural reactions to situations like that – fight, flight, or freeze. In close quarters, you often can’t flee, and with a large attacker, you can’t always fight. Freezing is a very common response to sexual assault.
So all these years, when he says ‘they just let you do it’, he’s been describing his victims’ freeze response. You don’t have to be a star for that to be your victim’s reaction. And yet his followers and the media have turned it into a joke.
I think I can speak for many SA survivors when I say that’s disgusting, appalling, and hurtful.
e: a few words
I don't find it funny at all and have to say my faith in humanity was absolutely crushed (below rock bottom) when he wasn't immediately cast out after the tape came out. My mother (in her 80s) was like "yeah, that's what we're dealing with, son".
It's not locker room talk, it's rapist talk.
It's not locker room talk, it's rapist talk.
100%. Worse, he says ‘they’ let you do it. How many women has he done this to? Obviously more than E Jean. Looking at the hell she’s been put through since coming forward, it’s no wonder his other victims haven’t been willing to come forward.
Trump was a co-defendant along with Epstein in the rape case of a 13 year old girl who dropped the case when herself and her family were threatened with death.
He’s not just a rapist, but a serial rapist.
As a dude who's been in plenty of locker rooms... it is indeed "rapist talk". For sure, there's bantering of all sorts (mostly about boobs and dumbshit)... but there ain't nobody in there that's proud to talk like that; Unless they actually mean it and than they sound like a creepy fucking rapist, and nobody's really having fun with the "jokes" anymore.
He's a rapist. And by continuing to open his fat fucking mouth about how that's "fine and whatever", he brings down all men in the process. Fuck that dude, he ain't allowed to be part of the "cool men's club", ya fucking weirdo. Fuck that dude
We’ve understood this forever. What MAGA people all have in common is that they’re terrible people. It’s the seven deadly sins all rolled up into one voting block.
And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything.
THERE’S NEVER BEEN A SECRET TO THE PERSON HE IS. HE SAID IT OUT LOUD AND STILL BECAME PRESIDENT.
It’s not like people aren’t listening, it’s that those that vote for him actually think the same way and it makes them proud to hear it when it’s said
Conservative morality isn't based on the things it claims to be.
The foundations are these:
They literally don't believe that rules should bind high-status people; that's what makes them powerful - and thus admirable - in their eyes.
Rules are only enforced downwards, protecting the strong from the actions of the weak - and violating that principle is the only sin.
That's why they're so hung up on race / gender / sexuality: those things are caste markers to them, and determine the right and proper role for people in their eyes. If someone steps out of their pre-ordained caste, that's violating the hierarchy and eroding the rules that keep society ordered-therefore-safe, and therefore inherently immoral to them.
Every time people post another scoop on Trump getting away with shit, it just affirms his kingly, even godly status in their eyes.
The only thing that can bring him down is defeat and failure, being subjected to rules and forced to submit to them, showing him to be low-status and thus not admirable.
The book Fascism Today: What It Is and How to End It (excerpts) is fantastic to explain this new fascism and provides a very useful new definition: “Inequality through mythological and essentialized identity”
Damn thank you for introducing me to this site, like libgen but way better (also including libgen)!
That's why they're so hung up on race / gender / sexuality: those things are caste markers to them, and determine the right and proper role for people in their eyes. If someone steps out of their pre-ordained caste, that's violating the hierarchy and eroding the rules that keep society ordered-therefore-safe, and therefore inherently immoral to them.
You've nailed it. Also, if people start to realise these labels aren't as fixed they may naturally extend those conclusions to other arbitrary markers - like class and wealth.
After someone said "So, who cares? He's the president" I decided to cut all contact and never speak to them again.
They know, they don't care. The cruelty is always the point.
MAGA = Bad Humans.
You really are a shit person if you support this trash. No excuses, nothing can justify it, you're just a piece of shit.
Yes yes and thrice yes.
He was elected despite being on tape saying "grab em by the pussy, you can do anything"
They aren't going to start caring about women suddenly. Women are just property to the base and they are expected to vote according to their owners. At least that's what it looks like!
His fascist supporters love it, because it puts women "in their place" and they want to return to a time (not too long ago) when all of society swept abusive misogyny under the rug.
I mean, why else would they constantly demonize feminism?
MAGA sees women as property. 2nd class citizens. Subhuman. They are to be possessed and done with as you please. The primary tenet of conservatism is that natural hierarchies exist. Conservatives believe men are inherently "better" than women. Period.
They all abuse women…. It’s the MAGA way.
It's not really a surprise coming from the party of hate filled losers, incels and criminals. I expect no less and hope that voters remember come election time. It is long past due to send the Republicans back to under the rocks from which they came
It's not even that they don't care; they actually like it, presumably because it legitimizes what they also already do.
It's a feature. Better, it's a bonus. And to be clear it's not limited to the conservative men, bc conservative women think this way too.
Because if they investigate him, they'd have to investigate all of them.
Misogyny Arouses GOP Arseholes.
Its almost like you could ask the old question "are you still beating your wife?" A yes answer gets even more votes.
The question is, "When did you stop beating your wife?"
Their answer is, "Didint"
Crowd cheers
"It's an American ideal that we treat women with respect. Also, TRUMP THAT BITCH"
Fascism. They fundamentally believe that inequality based on inherent identity is morally correct. And identity based on some myth. That is why capitalism, science denial to further deregulation, blind or fanatical faith and fascism work so well together.
He's still talking about that wall he couldn't finish or make Mexico pay for. And he's gonna drill drill drill and re-defund the EPA again. How the f do you explain to your kid that 50 million, scary low for USA to get elected, opted for the grab guy again?
They’re degenerates and trump is their king.
how shocking
In related news- the sky is made of air.