He's been speaking out against Israel since the 1980s. Not just speaking, but standing up in congress and yelling about it. There was just a little artificial construction where him calling it "ethnic cleansing" instead of "genocide" represented a reason why he was actually pro Israel, which was always a fucking bonkers take on it.
Honestly, when you're fighting for what's right, it makes it more bearable when it's hard. There's not this extensive hesitation or heavy weight, like when you're struggling with some frustrating task that isn't really what needs to be done in the first place.
There is a big narrative that loves to pick off the left-est of the left people in the US government, and come up with various bullshit reasons to criticize them. You'll see a bunch of them down below in this thread, being negative about Bernie.
You'll never hear this kind of argument applied anywhere else. Like, if Beto O'Rourke said Gaza was a genocide, you wouldn't see all these Lemmy comments saying "TOOK YOU FUCKING LONG ENOUGH YOU PIECE OF SHIT" or whatever. When that handful of countries said they wouldn't do sporting events with Israel, I didn't see anyone commenting "YEAH WHERE WAS THIS TWO YEARS AGO WHERE ARE THE FUCKING WAR CRIMES CHARGES" or anything like that. The extensive nitpicking is only aimed at people like AOC and Bernie who are significant leftist voices in government.
If you want to know what Bernie's been actually saying about Gaza, this is it:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uVDPXtnTXUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFhcSlrJcAU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dd4cg-t8j8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2_AWLQ4gk4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBZreokpA_s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRrHfsqg990
And so on. He's been doing what most of Lemmy would like to see someone in the US Congress doing: Yelling about Israel, what a fucking horror it is, and trying to stop US military aid. This extensive nailbiting about him calling it "ethnic cleansing" instead of "genocide" is just going to get smoothly replaced by these users with some other reason to nailbite about him, definitely not with any enthusiasm or support for him. I guarantee it.
Got it. This is just a crosspost from the RSS bot of all content that they sent as part of the RSS feed (it's not dodging around a hard paywall), but I'm happy to crosspost without that stuff if that's better.
Aren’t you an admin?
Not really. I ran my own server for a while but never one with a significant userbase. I've never made efforts to be in the club or learn about the messy ins and outs of it.
Doesn't CSAM removal have to involve the admins anyway, because it needs to be scrubbed completely from the modlog? I'm not completely sure how it works, but I feel like it would be okay to have an admin layer that's only for genuinely illegal content, but then have the majority of the day-to-day moderation be via a voluntary layer.
Honestly, if you ask me I think the whole of moderation should be opt-in. Maybe the default set of "people who are allowed to remove content from my feed" matches exactly with how Lemmy does it currently, but then you can always override it (or add to it for that matter) according on your preference.
This whole model where "the app author" / "the server admin" can override content for "the hapless user," and the user has to have these whole stupid endeavors to come before the operators and community "owners" and beseech them to change their experience, is just a silly design.
It's not trivial to make that happen within Lemmy, of course, but it's also not some kind of crazy pipe dream rewrite. If some moderator is removing trolls and CSAM, then fine, but if they start policing people's allowed political views or making dumb decisions, then the users can as a whole just go "lol no" and disable them from controlling the communication they as individuals are allowed to decide they want to receive. That's what makes sense to me. All this stuff about how to beseech the operators to make things more amenable to us, because of their gracious acceptance praise be, is just kind of faffing about trying for a lesser evil.
For that, I am genuinely sorry. It's not your fault that I'm dealing with some shit and it's completely on me for not compartmentalizing better.
Yeah, all good man. I didn't take offense too much or anything, I have a pretty thick skin as long as somebody seems like they're coming from a good place which it absolutely seemed like you were. I was just honestly confused by it because I thought I was mostly agreeing with you. I looked back over my stuff and I feel like maybe the way I led off the very first reply ("witch hunt") sort of brought in a disagreeable or combative tone, that's all I could really arrive at, but in any case, yeah, I think what you're saying are good valid points.
Moreover, it feels kind of like you're putting that work on me. Like a lot of your comments feel like they're saying that I should have thought about that ahead of time and planned it into my post.
Naw, not at all. I think a lot of this is going to get handled (if at all) by the lemmy.world team, this is just you and me sort of pitching stuff into the suggestion box as outside observers / non dentists as you said in your later analogy. Me saying "this is how I see it" doesn't at all mean I was trying to put something on you for not seeing it the same way or putting all the stuff I had to say about it into your thoughts about it beforehand.
In the tooth analogy, what I thought I was doing was "yes that one is bad, I think it may have come about because of diet and this is what I've observed as causes, and also look at this other tooth too, that one's less visible but there might be a really significant issue with it as well." I wasn't even weighing in on what should happen, since it's not really my or your decision, just kind of giving perspective on issues that I see and how they relate to this particular issue. But yeah not saying not to deal with this particular issue at all.
So again, I am sorry for how I had responded earlier. That's on me. But that's probably the best way I can word what I'm thinking. Sorry <3
All good man, I'm completely fine about it from my end
They should be able to find people there wanting to help mod the community.
Finding someone who "wants to help" is very different from finding someone who's going to following through about putting in the consistent investment of time and energy to actually do it and do a good job at it.
it feels like you bringing unrelated issues (such as other mods, or previous moderation issues) that aren't really on topic for this post can be a bit frustrating from Stamets perspective
I mean it sounds like he thought I was saying a bunch of stuff I wasn't saying. I get how he might have gotten some of it out of what I said, but some of the stuff I very clearly never said. In any case regardless, if you're right that he felt frustrated to the point that he had to start yelling and typing all these hostile messages while I was repeatedly telling him I didn't have any kind of issue with what he was saying, I don't really feel any responsibility for that on my end, I feel like that's a him issue.
Finding someone to moderate a massive community who will do a consistent and passable job at it never mind be "good" in all their decisions, is not trivial. That's part of the underlying issue that leads to a lot of these situations developing.
That's not meant to be an argument for not removing Jordan. There are a bunch of other mods, I'm not even sure that they would need to replace him at all, it might be fine to just take him off the list and replace him with no one (I think that's the most likely outcome / plan honestly.) I'm just saying that including in the equation what happens with the community after is important to include. If the proposal includes replacing him with a good moderator then it turns into an instant win and very clearly a very good idea.
I have no idea why you are being so consistently hostile to me in this conversation.
Dude what on earth?
Because I have an enormous post above that demonstrates behavior across the board that shows he is unfit.
Yes, which I mostly agree with, as I keep saying.
You claim that he is not the source of this but I literally just gave you a mountain of evidence demonstrating that he is
Every example you gave, I agree with, as far as I looked into them which was a decent amount. I'm bringing in other issues which I also think should be solved, some of those I don't think he is the source of, but even that I could be wrong about.
Or are you saying that I'm wrong for going after Jordan here when there are other things to deal with?
Not at all. I'm pretty sure I thanked you for bringing all this up and agreed with pretty much all of it.
If we remove the people at the top who are abusive and replace them with people who are not
The addition of "and replace them with people who are not" is a huge addition here, which would basically address 100% of what I'm saying. "Remove Jordan and then move on" is the only part of what you're recommending that I am even reserving agreement on (not even disagreeing with, but just adding asterisks to my opinion about). If you add "and replace with someone better" to the plan, then it turns into 100% approval for the plan "get rid of Jordan and insert (blank) instead." Assuming that "(blank)" is someone good or even pretty-decent.
I am not continuing this conversation with you. Have a good day.
Okay, you don't have to, I just wanted to give some clarifying responses to some of what you said. Cheers. Like I said, I agree with pretty much all of your message in general on the factual basis.
He is literally a socialist.
Edit: Here he is in 1985: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phTKpMh5jQI