ProbabalyAmber

joined 2 years ago
 

Ok so a lot of people seem to think I'm a walking contradiction, but I'm trying to walk that as truthfully as I can on both sides of this divide. My lgbt friends are all like "we accept that you are trans but i dunno about this whole 'Christian' thing" and my Christian friends are all like "we accept that you are Christian but i dunno about this whole 'trans' thing"

So in attempting to reconcile all this, I came out to my pastor. In doing so, there's still a pretty big chance I'll be kicked out of my church, but that remains to be seen. But my pastor, my wife, and I have been chipping away at a document, back and forth, for like a year now. I don't know how to edit this into something resembling a blog post, and I don't agree with my pastor's assertions, but leaving out his response seemed unfair to him. Our conversation hasn't stopped, but we pivoted to talk about how this looks in reality instead of focusing on the nitty gritty theology, so there isn't a written "my response to his response" part, but there was a verbal part to that, both of us poking holes in each other's logic, it got very heated. Feel free to ask specific questions in the comments, I'm doing this for full transparency. So at the risk of losing some readability I'm going to try to keep this document in its true final form here, with as few edits as possible to still read coherently like some kinda blag post...

I'd like to get it out here on the internet, where maybe it can do some good and let some trans people know that their transness isn't keeping them from God, and help some Christians know that trans folks aren't the enemy, but some fellow broken humans that Christ calls us to love... and maybe the rare trans Christian will see this and can come out to whichever side they may be lying to.

I think that's enough ado.


What does the Bible say about being transgender?

Opening note from my pastor: This is a response to your more exegetical explanation of the topic from your perspective. I’m trying to be brief and objective, but I don’t want that to be mistaken as unfeeling. You will see that I disagree with the reasoning put forth, but you know my care for you. I’ll quote your main statements (giving them names for ease of reference) and then summarize and respond to the core arguments in each.


The poetry argument My statement: “The main argument I see used against trans people is that God created Man and Woman, and the natural order doesn't allow anything outside of that. My argument against that main argument is that Genesis 1 is poetry, and is not using binaries literally. If we say that Genesis 1 doesn't allow for anything outside of Man and Woman, then we have to say that Genesis 1 doesn't allow for dawn and dusk and bogs and beaches and fog and frogs and bats. Much of the theology of what it means to be male and female is built upon verse 21, and functionally adds an "only" to the text, that God created only male and female, and leaves no room for grey area. If there is no "only" then an intersex condition that doesn't require medical treatment and doesn't affect quality of life isn't necessarily a product of the fall.

My Pastor's response: The argument could be summarized this way: The binaries God created on the first days of creation have unmentioned transitional states (dawn and dusk, bogs and beaches). Therefore, the binary of man on the last day of creation could also have unmentioned transitional states (such as intersex). First, it should be stated that, at best, this only argues for the possibility of transitional states between male and female, not the certainty of those states. In other words, it is not conclusive proof. To argue for the existence of anatomical trans-individuals as part of God’s perfect creation would require other evidence, such as “in the image of God he created him; male and female, and combinations thereof, he created them.” That would settle the issue definitively. But there is biblical evidence that argues against this conclusion. I’ll point out three observations from Genesis that argue for the binary male and female as God’s only intended design for our biological sex. The nature of male and female is different than the nature of the other pairings. Day and night are cyclical phenomena whose transitional states (dusk and dawn) are the necessary outcome of an earth that rotates with respect to the sun. So also land and sea necessarily have transitional states (bogs and beaches) where the two meet. But there is no necessary transitional state between male and female (as in intersex for example). The binary couple is sufficient to “be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it”, which is what they are commanded by God to do (Gen. 1:28). In fact, even after the fall, this is reaffirmed in the flood account, where only male and female couples boarded the ark to replenish the human race, and the command was renewed.
So, the relationship between male and female is not directly comparable to the other pairings in the Genesis account. This makes the created binary of the last day unlike the created binaries of the other days. The assumption that it should have transitional states is unjustified on those grounds. Second, we have a direct report that when God rested from his creation, there was only the binary of male and female, with no transitional states. When God said in Genesis 1:27 “male and female he created them” he was referring to Adam and Eve, no one else. And as if to double down on this fact, Genesis 2 recounts the creation of man in more detail, describing how God created the one man and then the one woman from that man. It is these two individuals who then sinned in Genesis 3 and were cast out of the Garden. This argues against the possibility that God intended to make transitional states of male and female. The actual result of creation before the fall was a male and a female, not intersex. Most importantly, Genesis 1 highlights in several ways that man – male and female – is God’s crowning achievement, unlike anything else he has made. First, God uses a term to describe man – male and female – which he uses for nothing else. Only man is made “in his own image” (Gen. 1:26-27). The terms “in our image” or “after our likeness” communicate that man is more like God than anything else he has made. This is why he is given dominion over the rest of creation. Man is to reflect the character and creative capacity and benevolent rule of God over everything else. Man, created in his image specifically as “male and female he created them” is like God and accountable to God, which is restoring man to the image of God (Romans 8:29; 2 Cor. 3:18) is the focus of the redemptive work of Christ.

The repetition of the term “created” also points to man’s uniqueness in creation. The description that God “created” something only happens once before man’s creation, which was the creation of the land creatures. But when man’s creation is described, it is with a thrice-repeated emphasis: “God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. In other words, everything else was “created” but man was “created, created, created!” This is like bold face and underlining to signify unique importance. Also, the progression of the value statements from ‘good’ to ‘very good’ reflect this unique creation of man. Everything that was created in days one through five received at best what we might call a 4-star rating, namely “And God saw that it was good” (Gen. 1:9, 12, 18, 21, 25). But only when God creates man as male and female does he give it a 5-star rating, namely “And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good” (Gen. 1:31). What made it very good? The creation of male and female. They are special in God’s creation. Everything else that was made was made was for them so they could “fill” and “subdue” the earth. The earth was like a stage set for the actors to arrive. What we can responsibly conclude from all that has been said above is this: There is no evidence for the existence of anatomical trans-individuals in creation; in fact, the evidence is strongly against it. What makes more sense is the simple solution, that the ‘poetic’ binary language in Genesis 1 is chosen precisely to build anticipation for the ultimate binary which is male and female in God’s image.


The variety argument My statement: “God created the world, and in his infinite intelligence he made it extremely complicated and messy and there’s always more to learn in any scientific pursuit, we never find the bottom or the top of Creation. We point Hubble at a dark patch of sky and find things we never imagined, we break apart subatomic particles and find things we don’t have names for yet. Any argument that hinges on downplaying the intricate details and incredible nuance that everything in Creation has, is missing a view of a God who loves variety.”

My pastor's response: The argument could be summarized this way: God made a world of great variety and complexity, the depths of which we continue to discover. To deny that he could have created trans-individuals downplays his creativity and amounts to a downgraded view of God. Again, this only argues for the possibility of transitional states between male and female, (i.e. a creative God could have created physically trans-individuals as part of his creativity). But this is unconvincing for the simple reason that God decides what shape his creativity takes, and what shape it doesn’t take. After all, he is the potter and we are the clay (Isaiah 64:8, Rom. 9:21). Who are we to tell him what he made and how it should be made? We aren’t downgrading God’s creativity or love of variety by appreciating an individual work of art that is unlike all the others. Man as male and female is “fearfully and wonderfully made” (Psa. 139:14), his greatest work of art. The variety argument assumes God’s creativity must include intermediate states of human biological sex. But it does not. The variety of the species (dogs and frogs) does not necessitate gender variety within a species. From this it makes sense that conditions like intersex are the result of the fall. After the fall, the world is like a corrupted hard drive, with brokenness both of body and mind. Gender dysphoria and the blurring of biological sex is part of the corrupted hard drive. Therefore it can’t be relied upon as a picture of what God intended for man. Only the uncorrupted hard drive tells us what God intended to create. And that is man as male and female, in his image. Binary. Everything else is a deviation from God’s will.


The argument from texts prohibiting gender confusion My statement: “Smaller argument against: Prohibitions against confusing gender by one’s physical appearance apply to its practice in idol worship (Deuteronomy 22:5) or they address specific cultural situations and are not universal in scope, like the length of hair and covering or uncovering the head during worship in 1 Corinthians 11:14-15.”

My pastor's response: Let’s say for the moment that this is true. And as far as I know, these are the only two texts that specifically address confusing gender by one’s physical appearance. If this is the case, here is what we have: The only texts in the Bible speaking of confusing gender appearance are both prohibitions. The prohibitions are in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The prohibitions are in the context of both idol worship and Christian worship. There are no positive affirmations of confusing gender appearance in the Bible. Now, if we are looking for what the Bible says about this issue, is it reasonable to conclude from the above that it affirms confusing gender appearance? Certainly not. The much more obvious conclusion is to say that the Bible doesn’t affirm this in any context, which is why the prohibitions are there. And that would be entirely consistent with what was said in previous points, namely that God created us male and female and he wants what he created to remain distinct according to his design. It could also be argued, I think appropriately, that the texts communicate a universal prohibition, not just a local or cultural situation, because both prohibitions are unqualified. But as you say, this is a “smaller argument”, so I won’t pursue that.


The inclusivity argument My statement: “My main argument for God allowing/affirming trans folks is: Who were the "gender non conforming" people of biblical times, and what does the bible say about them? The eunuch! Isa 56:3-5 - God has a place for us, a name for us. A promise of inclusivity. This also is the verse that finally gave me a place to stand in my theology and tell people what I was going through. Matthew 19:12 - Jesus giving a positive affirmation of the eunuchs, including those who make this choice themselves. I recognize this is in context talking about not being married, but it's the only time Jesus talks about the eunuchs, and he does so in a positive light. Acts 8:36-37 - The Ethiopian Eunuch is culturally as far from Philip as possible; he is of different social status, skin color, nationality, and gender presentation. He asks Philip what is preventing him from being baptized, and Philip sees past all their differences and baptizes him. Gal. 3:28 - Paul’s statement that there is “no longer male or female” is one example in a list of things that describe people, but should have no bearing on their status in the family of God. It suggests an affirmation of gender nonconformity, since it appears the Lord is downplaying sex identity as well as social standing and Jewishness.”

My pastor's response: There’s a lot in here to address, but for the moment I’m out of time to do justice to each Scriptural reference. So let me focus on a common theme in your argument. I would put your thoughts this way: God is inclusive of all kinds of people from all different backgrounds, including ‘gender non-conforming’, with the eunuch being the prime example. He speaks of them in an affirming way. This posture means he affirms their gender non-conformity. First, let me say that I have seen no convincing argument that a eunuch (as in Matthew 19:12) is anyone other than a man who is unable to marry and bear children due to: genital deformity (“eunuchs who have been so from birth”), castration (“eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men”) or voluntary celibacy for the purpose of gospel ministry (“eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven”). Jesus is speaking of all these men in the context of marriage, which is the subject of the previous verses. The disciples were aghast at the restrictions on divorce and exclaimed “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry” (Mat. 19:10). Jesus then says, “Not everyone can receive this saying [that it is better not to marry], but only those to whom it is given”. To whom is it given to not marry? It is given to eunuchs, because they are men who can’t marry for the three reasons he mentions. This is not an affirmation of gender non-conformity; it is an affirmation of the sanctity of marriage as a bond not to be broken. You mention from the Isaiah 56 passage that it is a promise of inclusivity, and it seems to me that this strikes at the heart of the pain you feel. You want to be included, you want to know that God loves you and that there is a place for you in heaven. Those are all good desires which God intends to fulfill through the gospel. But it seems that your concept of inclusivity means more than that. It seems that inclusivity also means God’s affirmation of your self-perception as a female in a male body. You want his approval of your gender non-conformity as essential to your sense of his love. The Isaiah 56 passage does not affirm that. Rather, it is one of many passages where God simply affirms that no matter what a person’s brokenness is, they will be redeemed through faith in him. It is inclusive in the sense that anyone can be saved, but it does not affirm the brokenness itself. God loves his people, but not their brokenness, which is what he intends to save us from. Let’s look at what Isaiah 56 does say. Isaiah 56:4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant… Observation: The eunuchs here are men who are unable to marry and bear children, and they are faithful God worshippers who want to please God. They are the objects of the promise that follows. Isaiah 56:5 I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off. Observation: The promise is that even though the ‘name’ of the eunuchs won’t continue in this life – because they have no progeny – they can be encouraged. God has a name for them that is everlasting. Because they trust in God, their name will be established forever in the life to come. This doesn’t affirm their ‘eunuch’ status as a good thing. Rather he gives consolation for their broken state. I would say the same thing about the Ethiopian eunuch. Philip baptized him because the man believed the gospel, and anyone who does that should be baptized, regardless of their background or brokenness. All may come to the living waters and be washed by the blood of Christ. God affirms us in his Son, but that does not mean he affirms our brokenness itself as a good thing. That is especially true for our sins. After birth, there needs to be growth in holiness. This is sanctification. The Galatians 3 passage is on similar ground. The subject matter in that passage is about who is justified before God and heirs to God’s promises. Answer: “In Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith” (Gal. 3:26). Faith is what connects us to Christ, who makes us sons of God in union with him. And who is “in Christ”? Answer: “as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ” (Gal. 3:27). Faith expressed in baptism is how we ‘put on Christ’. And are there any restrictions on who that can be? Answer: No, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28). This is not a text about gender nonconformity as a good thing, or a downplaying of the very real differences between people. It is an affirmation that anyone can become “Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise” (Gal. 3:29). The main point here is that God’s affirmation of those in Christ is not an affirmation of the brokenness and sin that made us need salvation in the first place. He loves us, but not the things that break us.


The dualism argument My statement: “Secondary argument: Dualism! I have less riding on this, but this is what it feels like to be trans. The mind/soul and body don't connect properly. So is it ok to adjust the body to fit the mind? 1 Samuel 16:7 - God looks at the heart. He knows the real me, not the physical me that everyone else sees and judges me for. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - Transitioning your body to align with your heart may not be sinful, but may even be a positive step in taking care of yourself, which we are commanded to do. I have trouble taking care of this temple of the Holy Spirit and would take better care of a more feminine me.”

My pastor's response: We can affirm that God looks at the heart and knows our inner life (1 Sam. 16:7 as an example). We can also affirm that God created us with souls and bodies, the immaterial and material ‘you’. The immaterial ‘you’ is referred to in Scripture as heart/mind/soul/spirit. But the question is this: when the heart/mind doesn’t agree with the physical body, which one is most likely to be right? In other words, what is most likely to be the positive step of taking care of yourself? Do you change the body or change the mind? Scripture says we change the mind, not the body. Here’s why I say that. One of the frequent descriptions of how we are fallen is in our hearts and minds, in how we perceive things, what we value, and what we believe. For example, Ephesians 4:17-18 “…you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.” This is a sweeping indictment of man without God: our hearts and minds are fallen. We also have commands not to trust our heart/mind, but to trust the Lord’s word over our own understanding. For example: Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. Proverbs 28:26 Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered. Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, These and other texts show us why we can’t trust our own thoughts about who we are: we need God to tell us who we are. And he has said what we are: male and female and nothing in between. Our biological sex is what God created; it is not a result of the fall. So if our bodies and minds don’t agree, the body is telling the truth, not the mind. That means transitioning your body to align with your heart would not be a positive step in taking care of yourself, for it is contrary to God’s will for how he created you. Rather, through the word and the Holy Spirit, we gradually are transformed by the renewing of our minds.


The asthma argument My statement: “Asthma Test/Sliding Scale of Medical Care What sin is being committed by transitioning? Lying to oneself? Idolizing one’s appearances? I've never seen a good answer to this question. Only people saying It's a sin because they think it is. Is body modification like tattoos/piercings a sin? Why or why not? What about altering one's physiology like taking asthma medicine?”

My pastor's response: Here I think we need to make a distinction between the categories of sin and disability. Asthma is a disability that is a result of the fall. It is not sin itself, and the pursuit of alleviating the pain is not wrong. God intends to heal us from all disability in the new creation. We are aligned with his will when we use the common grace of medicine for that. But biological sex as male or female is not a result of the fall; it is not a disability. It is God’s design. If a person is born with a distinct bodily gender as male or female, that is not brokenness; that is “fearfully and wonderfully made.” That is not a ‘condition’ that needs to be treated. [Intersex might be, but that is a disability and not a case of gender dysphoria.] To intentionally change one’s biological sex to the opposite sex would be to reject God’s design. And as a side note, tattoos and piercings don’t change a person’s gender, so that is not fundamentally a sinful thing to do. That brings us to the big question: What sin is being committed by transitioning? It would be twofold. First, it is sin to reject God’s design for our life, to reject his choice of our gender. That is like saying to God, ‘You made a mistake, and I am going to fix it.” And that cannot be. Second, it is seeking from transitioning something that can only be found in Jesus Christ: rest for your soul (Matt. 11:28-30). That makes it idolatry, for it is seeking life from something you can do rather than from what God has done, which is to send Christ to die for you and to dwell with you by his Spirit. Consistently the Scriptures point us to Christ and all that we have in him to alleviate our distress. And many people who have taken that path to alleviate their pain, even gender dysphoria, have found the help they needed. I believe you will also.

[–] ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Just got an offer letter with a nice bump in pay from the new company that's hiring me for the position I already fill. And my first HRT appointment is in like two weeks. And my big vacation for the year is just after that HRT appointment. It's been a nice turnaround after a pretty shit start to the year.

Not a pendant, but thanks!

 

According to capitalism, I don't exist.

I was in a mood the other day, and went looking at tacky Christian cross pendants. There's a huge variety of them, from real Baltic Amber to cheap acrylic to sterling silver to hand carved mahogany. I started to dive deeper and found ones plastered with stars and stripes, and found ones covered with a big gay rainbow. So I kept digging and... I couldn't find one with a trans flag.

Sometimes I feel very, very alone as a trans Christian, and this was one of those times. I know it's tacky, I know mashing up religious iconography is problematic, I know that if it existed I wouldn't even want one, I know that a product needs a customer... And if there's no product, then there's no customer, and I don't exist.

 

Quick preface: I thought nanowrimo was this month for a second, so I started typing, thinking I'd do a fictionalized version of myself that came out when her egg cracked instead of waiting 30 years. I was like 3/4ths of the way through the day's word count when I realized I'm off by a month, but writing this was so cathartic that I kept going.

Amber, she thought, would be a good name. The hard part would be getting people to call her that. Or to acknowledge that she was, in fact, a girl.

Amber was moving to Colorado, because the doctor had determined that she was allergic to the entire state of California. Her dad had found a job doing the same things with computers that he always had done, but in Colorado instead, so they moved. A move seemed like a good time for a fresh start, a fresh name, and a fresh gender.

She was scared to tell her parents what was going on, but she was more determined than scared. All she needed to do was to find the right words and the right time. So as they drove through the endless desert, she sat in her seat, staring at the nothing out the back window of the station wagon, and tried to find the words. 'Hey mom and dad, I'm actually a girl and my name is actually Amber.' but that wasn't quite right, there was so much more. And that sounded so defiant, didn't her parents know best when they gave her a boy name and acted like she was a boy? But that wasn't right either, maybe -

Just then the baby woke up and started crying. Mom and Dad stopped their quiet conversation up in front, and Mom called out softly "It's ok Ben, we'll pull over as soon as we get a chance." Right, Amber thought, I have to call him Ben now, because the new baby is on the way, and she'll be the baby, and he'll just be Ben.

But the desert of nothing dragged on and the crying kept escalating, so soon EVERYONE in the car was grumpy. Sally started poking Amber instead of staying on her side of the back seat, and Betsy just kept drawing in her sketchbook, but with one finger in her ear, to try to quiet the noise. Dad finally gave in and pulled over on the side of the freeway, because there hadn't been a sign in five miles.

While Mom took care of Ben, changing his diaper and nursing him, Dad dug out some snacks from somewhere and passed out a handful of GORP to each of the three big kids. "Good ol' raisins and peanuts! Don't just pick the M&Ms out, I don't want to be cleaning all your peanuts out of the car later."

"How much longer will we be in the car?" asked Amber. "Well our hotel is in Salt Lake City, so I think we are more than halfway there." said Dad. "Halfway! Uggggggghhh..." said Amber. She ignored Sally, who had resumed her poking as soon as Dad wasn't looking, and turned to Sugar, her little snow white teddy bear, and pretended to feed him peanuts, which fell directly on the floor of the car. "Can we at least get out and stretch our legs?" asked Sally. "No," answered Dad, "we aren't even at a rest stop, there's just this road and a bunch of prickly plants, no where safe to run. Just... take a nap or read your book or color, we'll be at the hotel before dinner and you can take a swim."


Finally they had made it to the hotel! Hotels were fun because they had a pool, but Amber wasn't as excited about the pool as usual. Her swimsuit was a boys swimsuit, and she felt self-conscious about her chest. Sally's swim suit was bright yellow with red flowers and covered her chest, but Amber's was just dark blue and looked like a pair of shorts. But a pool still sounded good after a long day of sitting still in the car, so she just kinda awkwardly tried to carry her towel in front of her until she got almost to the pool, then dropped off the towel and jumped into the pool in one quick motion, so no one would see. Once she was neck deep in the pool she felt much better about it, so she stayed at that depth and splashed and played with her family and the other kids at the pool.


The drive the next day was much more interesting, the scenery more varied and the mountains loomed. Soon, Amber's dad was driving through tunnels and across bridges and up and down switchbacks, and Amber's mom was trying not to swear at him for driving "too fast" or "too close to the edge". They got out and stretched their legs and the kids got their photograph taken with the big sign that said the Continental Divide, and spit on both sides of the slope, so their spit would end up in both oceans. Amber didn't like getting her photograph taken, because they always looked like some boy instead of how she felt she should look, but she smiled anyway, big and cheesy and forced.


After getting to Denver they drove up to The Rental and all got out. The moving truck was already there, and there were boxes of stuff everywhere. The Rental smelled funny and had weird stained glass windows, and even weeks later, when things had been unpacked, it didn't feel like home. Amber wasn't comfortable, in her skin, or in this house, or with the sights and smells, and she was definitely scared, so she never found time to tell her parents about what was going on. She also was sad, because Sugar's best friend, Oatmeal, a little brown teddy bear, somehow didn't make it to Colorado in the move and was lost forever. Her parents, also, were busy with the new job and putting things in order, and looking for an actual house to move into.


It was always one excuse or another, there was always something going on that kept Amber from speaking up. They moved out of the rental and into a proper home, and then promptly all caught the Chicken Pox. They had met new friends at Church and at Co-op, who took care of them while they recovered, but Amber still felt like no one really knew her, because they called her a boy and didn't use her name, but she still hadn't found time to sit down with her parents and have this very important conversation.


Finally it was her Birthday. She was turning 8 years old today, and her new friends were here, and there was cake and presents... but everything was slightly wrong. The cake had blue icing instead of pink, and had the wrong name on it. She got hotwheels and legos in her presents, when she wanted polly pocket and lego in her presents. When they sang happy birthday, they used a name that fit her body, but not her brain. And all the cards had "birthday boy" instead of "birthday girl." So when she closed her eyes and blew out her candles and made a wish, it was that everyone could see her as she really was.

When she opened her eyes, everything was suddenly right. The cake was pink, the hotwheels were polly pocket, and her big present from her parents was getting her ears pierced. But then she opened her eyes for real, and reality was still good, she was still surrounded by friends and family who love her, but it was all slightly off again. The ice cream was melting and making the cake and the paper bowl both soggy, so she went out in the back yard and played with her friends, pretending to be the puppy while the other girls played house.


A month later and the baby is here! Her name is Gabby and she is a princess. Amber thinks she's so tiny and lovely and she'll love her forever. Grandma flew out from California to take care of the kids while Mom and the baby settle into some kind of routine. Amber likes her other grandma better, because she doesn't make them eat their veggies and gives them extra desert. This grandma says that eating your veggies will "put hair on your chest" but Amber doesn't want that. She is worried that she'll grow up to look like her dad instead of her mom, but doesn't know how to say any of that without offending anyone, and she doesn't offend people, she the good one, the quiet one. Sally is the loud one who offends people.


School starts and Amber has to get up in front of everyone and lie to them, give them a boy's name instead of her own. She was hoping to tell her parents before now, before she had to lie again, but it's so hard to talk about, she doesn't have the vocabulary, and they'll get mad and... she's not even sure how they will respond. She wishes she knew more, like does this happen to everyone or only some people or am I the only girl in the world born into the wrong skin? Can a doctor fix her body with medicine or a preacher fix it with a miracle? Her parents might have answers to these questions, but they get mad about other queer things like this, and I don't want them to get mad at me and stop loving me...

 

Go to any post on any "relationship advice" community and you'll see people drawing up lines, saying you are the villain or your spouse is the villain. "hit the lawyer, facebook up, delete the gym." Most of the time that isn't helpful, people ask for relationship help because they want help with their relationship, they don't want to end it. Oh sure some people are just looking for a reason to get out of an unhealthy relationship, but why are people so quick to vilify? Divisiveness is not going to solve a relationship problem. I feel like I shouldn't have to start every one of my posts with this kind of disclaimer, but if you look through my post history you'll find me fighting for my wife again and again. She is not the problem, she is part of the solution. My number one goal is to preserve this relationship, fully transitioning comes second to that.

It's not just you all, I see this everywhere. I pointed it out to my wife and now she sees it everywhere. I came out at church and now I'm the villain there, how dare I do this to my wife and kids. Why can't I just "man up" and be what's expected of me?

And when I come out as Christian to my trans friends, my wife is the villain, how dare she hold you back, how dare she not fully embrace her bi nature, insert bi erasure rhetoric here.

Usually I would follow up this kind of caveat with the problem that needs addressed, but in this case, this IS the problem that needs addressed. Constantly having to fight for each other in opposing circles is exhausting, especially when we are asking for help. I don't want to hear "oh your priorities are fucked, transition first then worry about your wife". I'm so tired of asking for help and getting divisiveness. And I don't know what to do.

The two of us sat down with a counselor the other day and we felt seen, at the same time, for the first time. She understood this struggle. I wish she was taking more clients, hopefully the counselor she recommended will be equally excellent. How do we find or make more of these safe spaces, where we can both exist together, without either of us being the villain?

[–] ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 48 points 8 months ago (3 children)

hi every1 im new!!!!!!! holds up spork my name is katy but u can call me t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!!!! lol…as u can see im very random!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet random ppl like me ^^… im 13 years old (im mature 4 my age tho!!) i like 2 watch invader zim w/ my girlfreind (im bi if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite tv show!!! bcuz its SOOOO random!!!! shes random 2 of course but i want 2 meet more random ppl =) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lol…neways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!! DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again ^^ hehe…toodles!!!!!

love and waffles,

t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m

[–] ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 9 months ago (1 children)

One word in German

[–] ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah that was my experience, crying myself to sleep as I could feel the testosterone poisoning my body. Not having the words to say what's going on. Not knowing what would happen even if I could figure out what to say, but knowing it wouldn't be good.

Little dream Amber was aspirational, though.

 

I did it. I came out to everyone that matters. No one has cut me off or thrown me out. The process took about 6 months longer than I thought it would, but we are here, on the other side of that long tunnel. But instead of flying out of the other side, speeding my way towards a full transition, I'm maybe two steps further transitioned than I was six months ago. No momentum.

And oh boy am I tired. Long talks with good friends, debating theology with my pastor, answering questions, calming fears, it's a lot of social energy.

Can I just stop being trans for one bloody moment? I need a breather. But no, that's not an option, the dysphoria is not abated. So onward I press, taking the hard path, the good path, the slow path. I can be a Christian and trans. I can keep my support network and transition. I don't have to lose my wife and kids, we can make this work.

But

it's

so

slow

.

I've been transitioning as slowly as possible for 30 years, but I'm ready to drop my masc and make a mad dash to the other side. I'm ready to throw out the guy clothes, take E, get an orchi, laser my face. I know different people experience womanhood differently, but I feel like I haven't gotten to experience it all, despite leaning hard on that GNC wall for all my masc years. And so I don't ask people to call me Amber, she/her, because I don't feel like I deserve it. Once I'm over there, then I'll ask. Once I malefail. But this mindset is holding me back. Insisting on maintaining all my relationships and support network is holding me back. My wife working her way through her own theology and gender issues is holding me back. And I can't lose those, so I limp along, dragging the shattered remains of my masc alongside me.

I thought for sure that putting myself out there would free me to go be myself, that I would be zooming, but instead I'm still plodding along, just now with extra scrutiny.

Last night I dreamed I was a kid, and instead of hiding and building a masc, I was demanding to be myself. Little dream me was so sure of herself, so ready to fight everyone who would tell her she couldn't be who she really was. I could use her energy right now, and her willingness to fight for herself.

[–] ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So she's bi, and probably she/they agender.

On the sexuality side, she thinks that homosexuality is immoral because certain Bible verses seem to condemn it (she would word that much more strongly), so she'd be much happier if I was content to transition to he/they feminine man. I, on the other hand, would love to jump straight from hiding behind my he/him masc to living she/her full time, the transition itself and being visibly trans scares me.

On the gender side, she feels that her soul isn't gendered, that she'd feel equally at home in a male body, and feels that if I'm a woman because I feel like a woman, she can't be a woman because her genderless soul happened to be poured into a woman. I told her she's allowed to be a woman for different reasons than I'm a woman, and she didn't like that. I told her I would happily use they/them pronouns and had no issues perceiving her as genderless, but she didn't want that, either.

So yeah we are cracking all this open and we pick up one tiny piece of this mess and chew on it and discuss it for like a week, decide we can't agree, put it back down and try a different piece.

We are seeing a therapist next month, but Christian therapists who specialize in gender issues are really really rare, so it's a one time consultation instead of someone we can go back to.

[–] ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I just finished coming out this week to everyone who matters, personally and face to face, so I feel like I'm in a good place to go through this list

So to start I'd rate myself a 2 because of some internalized transphobia/homophobia from my conservative Christian upbringing.

My wife is a 3, she sees and loves the real me and is incredibly supportive up to a point and then not supportive at all. She's taken me shopping and helped me pick a purse, takes time out of her busy life to help me with laser hair removal in places I can't reach, is teaching me girl things like what to do with my long hair and painted nails... But then she won't call me by my chosen name and pronouns. I haven't asked her to, because she thinks she'd be lying to me. We are working on it, we're going to make it work.

My siblings and parents (and in-laws) range from a 1 to a 5, from Bible thumping to complete affirmation.

My gay friends are all a 1, but they don't understand that I'm still a Christian and hate that part of me.

I think "accepting as Trans/accepting as Christian" is the same scale, inverted. Those who accept my transness don't accept my Christianity, and vice versa.

Trying to convince both sides of this culture war that reconciliation is possible and good and right, and that I, the Transbian Christian, should be allowed to exist in both camps at once... It's exhausting. Why must existing itself be so hard.

I dream of a world in which this civil rights movement has been won, and people on both sides (and in the middle) look back at us today and say "what a bunch of bigots we all were"

When I was a kid my first puppy love crush was on a Sunday school teacher named Amber. And the name stuck with me. I met a second Amber in highschool and she was pure gender envy. I've used it online for my "pretend I'm a girl online" name many times, and if I had daughters instead of sons there's a possibility one of them would have ended up with the name. But a couple people have started calling me Amber to my face and it's the best thing ever.

[–] ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well, sometimes my oldest calls me Mom, just accidentally/out of habit, and it doesn't feel any better than Dad. So I don't think my dysphoria requires Mom, and it'll be easier for the kiddos as they won't have to adapt. We've been trying to chip at the gender norms and see what fits and what doesn't, as the wife and I are working this out. She/her/husband/dad might be where we end up so everyone can feel comfortable about where we are as a family.

[–] ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, my brother is one of the pastors at our church, and I came out to him on Easter, so this conversation has already started. I don't know if I'll be able to keep my church, I'm afraid I'll have to find a place that doesn't assume they have all the answers. But a "long and painful journey" has been my life so far, and both my wife and I are determined to make this work. This is progress, we are headed in the right direction, in the same direction. Feels good.

68
She (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by ProbabalyAmber@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/mtf@lemmy.blahaj.zone
 

So my wife and I have been trying to work through the practicality of me coming out. She's been having trouble perceiving me as female, which, like, I still have a beard, so I get it. She's bi, but also believes that homosexuality is a sin, so she's been trying to work though what we would look like. I've been trying to break apart the rigid gender roles a bit, and told her last night that I don't mind our kids calling me "dad" even if I go full fem, I have no problem with she/her/dad. Like, I'm the sperm donor, not the one who carried them for nine months. She thought that was great and asked about husband, because she really would rather have a husband than a wife. I told her that I'd really prefer wife, as husband is rather ick for me, so we are still working on that point.

Long preamble, sorry, but this morning as we were telling each other about our dreams last night and our visions for the future, she said "I envision myself in the future with my husband, and she's beautiful"

I think that's the first time I've been gendered correctly by my wife, and it feels so good. I think we are going to make it. I'm going to have my kayak and heat it too. I'll be able to transition without losing those closest to me. My vision of the future has never looked so bright, growing into old ladies together and showing people with our lives that "Queer Christians" is not an oxymoron.

I came out to my family yesterday, at an Easter thing. That was tough but woof that's a load off. Now I can boymode less around them!

 

I've been closeted for like 30 years. How tf do I let it out? I'm ready to come out, tell people, finally go live my life, but all I know is the mask. Who is this scared little girl that's hiding in here? How do I go be myself when I don't know who that is? I feel naked and exposed without my masc.

Go experiment? I'm still in that "man in a dress" stage, not sure if I'm going to be able to get HRT, so even looking at myself in the mirror is horrible. I'm trying to lose weight and I'm doing the laser hair removal thing, and those feel great, but

I feel like I missed my life, missed learning how to girl, and now I'm expected to woman? Can I please get some girlhood real quick so I can figure out how to woman? I want to go through the emo phase and the punk phase and maybe dabble in goth, I want to be cringe, I want to have a sleepover with the girls and do each other's hair and makeup so we can practice.

There's so many things that are gendered. I wore my belt "backward"s today, because I was always taught the "correct" boys way to do it. I feel like I'm drowning in the shallow end of the gender pool.

If I'm going to do makeup I'm going to have to look at myself in the mirror. If I'm going to do my hair I'm going to have to do something about the balding. If I'm going to change my wardrobe, do I do that now or wait until I lose these 10 kilos?

I pulled the cork and... I guess I thought I was gonna get a genie wish and wake up the next day as a girl. Instead I have to transition, and probably without any HRT. I guess this is the hard part.

Sorry for the ramble, even verbalizing these thoughts, this sentence, is hard. I'm so practiced at keeping it all in that even though it's happening, I don't know how to let it all out.

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