ProbablyKaffe

Learn what wars subjugated the tribes that inhabited your home town. Learn how they were removed and how the American workers were involved. Learn where they are now and what they have to say about the current environment. Even if they are not Marxists, they know more about American Imperialism than you do. They live it every day. Their natural inclinations are closer to reality than the average settler Communist's theories, who doesn't even know their name.

Sakai isn't the only nor even close to the best analyst of settler Colonialism, but he's the boogyman for settlers.

Revolutionary defeatism for Americans means bringing about the destruction of the American settler colony.

I'm saying we should address internal Imperialism, by focusing on working for the internal decolonial movement lead by the colonized nations. I said the Americans have never defeated their outward Imperialism. It has always been defeated by their victims themselves. This begs the question of why they are ineffective at defeating external imperialism? Because they fail to analyze their own inward imperialism as society that enables the outward Imperialism.

Think about how the US sanctions have been targeted at oil states like Russia, Venezuela, Iraq, and Libya, our internal colonization of oil extraction was accelerated by Bush and Obama which allowed us assault these nations. Which is more effective? RAWM like protests or the struggle by the internal colonies against the extractive industries? Dollar dominance from controlling oil prices allows the US to keep developing countries in a dependency trap. America's wealth is here, extracted here. Pull the weed by the roots.

RAWM does nothing and half of that "movement" was made of China Hawks. It's good to advance such positions, but most effective when tied to anti-colonial solutions which can actually solve the problem.

He supports land back only in the nominal sense. His focus on building an anti-Imperialist coalition with liberals and white supremacists is enough proof that he is at a cul de sac in his development, and the reason why he needs to listen to colonized radicals about his legitimizing of settler nationalism.

The standard of a Communist in this country needs to be a person with deep knowledge of the historical materialism that created and developed the US settler empire.

Rainer's protaganism is leading him into seeking validation from reactionary settlers. Americans have never defeated their own imperialism, every time their victims won for themselves. Outward Imperialism is a necessary contradiction to analyze and propagandize, but it is secondary, and fueled by the complete indifference to, erasure and exploitation of, indigenous nations. Failure to analyze the boujified nature of the Americans in the settler system leads you down the path of cultivating anti-Indigenous and anti-Black stances in your audience.

If the material basis in employment opportunities, housing, healthcare, wealth, ability to raise a family are available to everyone independant of their ancestry as a settler or not, in the same matter, nobody is a settler at that point.

This isn't true. The land is still stolen by one nation from another. The settlers can still dominate the colonies politically and decide things for them. Ancestry is not important outside of the racialized black context, and even black people can be settlers. It's a national question and the indigenous nations have their own national political systems to define who is and isn't indigenous. Again you misunderstand and overstate the importance of the American nation. Signing treaties of equality in a confederated context between all nations on this continent is a necessary precondition to Socialism. Political supremacy over land will be taken from the settlers and placed into the hands of a decolonial government. This decolonial government will bring about the eradication of the settler nationality as it itself withers away. The settlers maintaining power and "releasing" the imprisoned nations is tantamount to reforming the settler system, it isn't a revolution for us.

The primary contradiction is settler Colonialism. Not the bourgeois-proletarian contradiction between settlers. This is proven by the history of this country and the consistent collaboration between settlers against colonized groups. Black Wall Street, the wealthiest black-oriented community in US history, was founded by Black land grabbers who got indigenous land for free and sold it to white settlers. Even when Black people joined in on the settler system, the white settlers destroyed it.

What Liberalism advocates Decolonization at all. Liberal Decolonization is the propertied nation giving nominal rights to their colonies, i.e. neo-colonialism. Any system that gives the settlers political or economic supremacy is going to maintain settler Colonialism.

I'm uninterested in what the settlers deem socialist, because they don't even understand their own settler relationship to the colonized peoples. They are overwhelmingly illiterate in the history of how we became colonized.

Building socialism necessarily includes black and indigenous sovereignty, not something given to us afterwards. It is the path towards Socialism. Our Bourgeoisie is nothing without their ongoing colonization of Indigenous land and their comprador settler workers who labor those resources. Ideally the American workers' movements wake up to this contradiction and exercises it, otherwise the fight against Colonialism will take other, less ideal forms.

Yes and you misunderstand. The indigenous people are not marginalized groups of Americans. They are not Americans, they are their own nations, their own political and cultural bodies. Black Liberation comes in the form of becoming an independent nation and indigenous liberation comes in the form of total sovereignty over stolen land. We literally cannot wait for settlers and white supremacists to change their minds and treat us better, we will fight for sovereignty with or without them. Asking us to be subjugated into a settler socialism is assimilation and genocide. We will have white allies, not white saviors.

Anarchism and herrenvolk democracy cannot guarantee our safety and emancipation.

If you believe that a Vanguard can lead a revolution then you must understand that the political beginnings of a Vanguard confederation of decolonial states is a much more realistic and material goal than performing a cultural revolution on American settlers while still under bourgeois rule. How could we ever know if a white supremacists has changed their views? Is it their views that matter or their ability to exercise bigotry through access and adjacency to power?

How do you expect a bourgeoisie with this many nukes to allow that to happen? I've pointed out in this thread the US increasing internal Imperialism to massively expand oil production to maintain dollar imperialism. It's frankly a Trot opinion to think America will die from external causes. Block America's access to internal wealth and you can choke Imperialism from within. I don't know how much protesting Ukraine aid is gonna hurt Imperialism, but the no DAPL protests certainly did. The Cop City protests prevent international states from studying urban occupation.

Our Bourgeoisie thinks they can survive a nuclear war. They can't survive one if we are sieging their neighborhoods. Necessarily we owe it to the world to end America, we don't have the privilege to sit it out.

You mention that America's imperialist contradictions will increase revolutionary potential and reaction. Which direction do you think will work best in our favor? Bending to reaction at the expense of the colonized peoples, or guiding them towards the decolonial movement?

It's nothing to do with morals. It's ending the colonial relationship to land and depriving the settlers of landed property rights. The struggle for indigenous sovereignty won't end until this happens so it doesn't matter if white Americans build their national socialism they'll have to fight off attempts of the indigenous and Black nations asserting their sovereignty.

Frankly we are soon heading towards the settler nation abandoning large swathes of territory due to their own economic practices. California was settled by the refugees of the self imposed Dust Bowls who were given Californian farms managed by Japanese migrants who were interned by the settler states during WW2. There is no new West to bail them out of their contradictions. It's not listening to indigenous, it's working for them. The decolonial government will take sovereignty over the lands out of the hands of the colonizer class. Political supremacy of the settlers is a continuation of white supremacy. I have no interest in respectability politics if the audience is settler nationalist, we do not politic for the settlers, this is not their liberation (nor was American Liberty calling for the emancipation of slaves). There will be millions of Americans who will follow us, I'm sure of it, but we are right to select them ourselves, and set standards for working together.

We are not trying to convince reactionaries of our cause, we will work with those who are not. Those who'd rather be approachable to the reactionaries than work with colonized revolutionaries are preparing themselves for the dustbin of history.

Someone recently said something like (paraphrased): Many of us Communists will end up going to prison. For you White Communists, you will be forced to chose between the White gangs and the Communists/Brown folks. If you think there is tactics in pretending to be a white supremacist to save yourself, you are not a Communist, you are an enemy.

The US will be destroyed by the fourth worlders. I've posted elsewhere in this thread why American Communists absolutely need to be decolonial revolutionaries. MWM meeting white supremacists halfway leads them away from the decolonial movement, let's them keep their reactionary views, and puts them into opposition to our liberation. Instead of platforming indigenous and Black revolutionary voices they party with white supremacists like Haz and Hinkle.

Well I mean, we have 400 years of colonization and worker's movements already existing to study. It's beyond the point in time to notice the most effective attacks at the US state have come from indigenous and Black nations. American Communists are overwhelmingly illiterate in how the colonized nations of North America came to be subjugated by the settler state. Nobody says the American workers can't advance Decolonization, but centering the movement on their struggle is counter revolutionary while they are historically illiterate to the territories they inhabit. This is why pushing potential comrades away from decolonial voices is dangerous as Rainer and MWM are doing it.

He says he does, but his focus on external imperialism forms coalitions with anti-Indian and anti-Black white supremacists. This allows settler white supremacists to dominate any "Communist" movement that forms out of the US and negates any good "intentions" towards the imprisoned nations. His actions speak much louder than his words. We are not going to allow ourselves to be locked into a system of settler political supremacy, because that is the existing system we will liberate ourselves from. Rainer hasn't read any history about how each nation actually became imprisoned, because he calls the researchers in that space "Liberals" and "wreckers". He pushes any potential comrade away from the decolonial voices. Whenever I mention land theft and genocide his followers pick examples of indigenous people owning slaves or warring against other tribes, or indigenous and Black people serving the military, without any Marxist analysis to contextualize these facts. As Communists in America we need to be literate in the history and processes of American Colonialism, not this book worship that Rainer and the PatSocs get into.

I also want to point out that many of our comrades here who disagree with our takes on Decolonization are being good party members and holding the lines that their and many parties around the world are holding, hope in the American workers. But these parties especially the ones in the settler colonies of North America have not done the necessary investigation of their settler society and land and resource theft. Many of them are petit/semi (landed) bourgeois, educated, and through this have privileged entrance into Marxist theory, me included. We know that Lenin and the colonized comrades had an uphill battle against European Chauvinism within the international Communist movement which is what crystalized Marxism Leninism in the first place.

There is no reason to abstract internal colonization as either finished or different from external colonization, even calling it internal colonization makes it seem like the solution for the colonized Africans and indigenous nations is to absorb them into the settler nation. No, the settler states exist on stolen resources that they use to dominate the rest of the world, but its connection to wealth is here, inside its borders. It needs settlers to take land and hold it for the bourgeoisie to later expropriate. It needs settler dominated unions to build and work the environmentally extractive and damaging infrastructure that only benefits the settler masses. I posted about armed indigenous resistance (backed by the Panthers) to racist fishing enclosures in the 1960s that sparked the American Indian Movement, and that post had far less traction than this one about MWM.

American comrades, find out what tribes inhabited the places you have physical connections to. Learn how they came to no longer own that territory and why you and your people now do. You will learn far more about capitalism and America than through studying other movements, because our conditions are not the same. Apply the methodologies of MLism to the history of this continent, stop importing the solutions from others.