May not be stonings, but you've got the French Revolution, Stalin's purge during the Soviet Union and Cultural Revolution - all mass executions caused by Atheist states.

The Holocaust wasn't motivated by religion either- Actual bible-believing Christians were against it. The predecessor to our "progressive" Christians ("Christ of the culture" mentality)

[–] accideath@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yea. Humans never needed an excuse for violence.

Or rather, we always found an excuse, religion is merely one of them.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago

Even then, most of the time Religion was used as a justification for the actual intent which was usually some form of colonial subjugation. "We're spreading the Gospel" wasn't the actual intent, moreso just what you told people at home questioning the ethics of you conquering faraway lands

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not so sure of that Christian version of "no true Scotsman", but it's true that religion is typically just a tool used by people with power to direct the people to violence, rather than the source of it.
But man is it an effective tool for that purpose.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

"No true Scotsman" isn't just a thing you can scream at everything.

The No True Scotsman tale is as follows:

Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge." Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

I don't know about you, but having sugar on your porridge isn't a large scale distinction as okay-ing the mass murder of an ethnic group.

A more accurate example within Christianity will be:

Person A: "No Christian says swear words"

Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Christian and he swears sometimes"

Person A: "But no true Christian says swear words"

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

no Christians supported mass murderer
Hitler and his supporters were Christians
No ~~true~~ bible-believing Christians supported it

Sounds an awful lot like the scenario that you described. In fact it matches the archetypical example so well that it's kinda wild that you quoted it when trying to say it doesn't apply

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

In fact it matches the archetypical example so well that it's kinda wild that you quoted it when trying to say it doesn't apply

What type of horse kicked you in the head to make you think that mass murder is as trivial as sugar on porridge or saying no-no words?

[–] ExtantHuman@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Why do you think the example being trivial means that they all have to be trivial to apply? Examples are not all encompassing, nor do they seek to additional constraints that were not part of the definition.

The whole point of the fallacy is to disingenuously distance the group from acts that members of the group have done.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

There's nothing disingenuous about it. If you don't hold to a belief system, you don't hold to a belief system. A genocide of a people that God once considered "chosen" purely on the grounds of race is not part of the Christian belief system. My overall point is that you cannot blame Christianity for the holocaust - the main proponents of the Holocaust weren't Christian at all.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If you're going to be strict, there exist no true Christian, because every single Christian has violated some Christian tenant, especially because some tenants are contradictory.
But if you allow enough wiggle room to allow for the existence of Christians, then you're going to run straight into true Scotsman when you try to exclude specific groups

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 2 months ago

Good point.

Username checks out, lol.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

What type of horse kicked you in the head to make you think that "no true Scotsman" cannot apply to serious topics?

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Found the Heritage Foundation shitposting account.

Btw:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Christianity

https://theopolisinstitute.com/evangelicals-for-adolf-christians-in-hitlers-germany/

And, of course, Stalin actually politically allied with the Orthodox Church during WW2.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Leadership lacked spiritual strength because of serious Biblical ignorance and unbelief.

Yeah, it's reinforcing my point. That's why I specified "bible-believing". Just identifying as a Christian because it's your culture isn't the same as being an actual believer.

And before you pull out a "no true scotsman", that argument is moot. It's like saying "vegans don't eat meat", then someone else says "xyz is a vegan and eats meat". It's a valid objection to say that somebody isn't actually something, unlike the "no true scotsman" where ethnicity and nationality are being debated over something trivial like sugar on porridge. You need to hold actual Christian beliefs to be a true Christian.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

So literally no one except the people you find personally convenient for your argument, awesome.

[–] Pippipartner@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

edgy teenage bullshit argument

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 points 2 months ago

🙄

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk -3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Dachau literally had barracks for clergy

St James, the Brother of our Lord wrote the following:

James 1:26-27

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Now, to address your allegation referring to a "Heritage Foundation" (which I had to google) you're probably referring to an American "conservative" think-tank. They are apparently behind the "Project 2025" satanic mandate laid out by the antichrists of American politics. Doesn't St James write to keep ourselves unstained from the world? Why would I ever align myself with the leader of the USA? Do you automatically assume that because I follow Christ? Would Christ approve of what your president is doing? If Christ will return today, I tell you, it'll be worse for the USA and the anglosphere in general facing God's judgement than many other countries. I would never worship anyone other than God, unlike the cultists in that cesspit of a nation. You lot will have a lot to answer for, committing such evil, some doing so claiming in the Name of God, and others rejecting and blaspheming Him! Repent and turn to the Gospel. Don't follow the ones who'll die, who tickle ears and show off spectacles. follow He who was raised from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father almighty - for He will return in Glory to judge the living and the dead! His Kingdom will have no end!

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Lol, you're so full of shit. Good luck in the war.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 2 months ago

Which war are you referring to?