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UK’s first trans judge appeals to European court of human rights over supreme court ruling
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2025
236 points (98.0% liked)
UK Politics
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Oh yes the both sides argument...
I can see how all of those trans people are offending you with their... Checks notes... Desire to exist.
Truly we live in a mad world.
There are THREE sides in the trans debate (besides not interested in it).
You are either pro trans rights, anti trans rights, or a russian bot sent here to pretend to be one of those previous two and drag the debate into the sewer as much as possible.
будь осторожен, Сергей, ты раскроешь наше прикрытие
The pro trans rights crowd calls me "anti trans rights" or a "bigot" and the anti trans rights crowd calls me "pro trans rights" or a "groomer"
You're just a bigot, and like all bigots, an idiot as well.
Case in point.
I think the issue is that you're out here having opinions on trans people/issues when you don't really know that much about the topic at all. I mean, you've got "the surgery" and "transgenderism" in your post history, and you're arguing in favor of keeping trans women out of women's restrooms. A lot of what you say is just kind of casually transphobic in like an ignorant way, but I feel like you probably don't mean to contribute to bigotry, right? I wish I had some reading material I could recommend. Check if your local library has a rainbow shelf?
I like to learn but also give my current perspective and where I'm at. People are free to change my mind if they like to challenge it.
Your post is a perfect example of why some think this is a binary issue - generally it's an age thing, you don't develop an understanding of nuance until you're older.
Nah, I've seen some be completely mental and threaten to burn down their GP or be absolutely unhinged. I've also seen people be unhinged and want them to kill themselves. It's madness.
You have not seen people trying to burn down their GP. Quit making shit up.
As for being suicidal... That sounds like a pretty good reason to give people access to the medical care they actually need.
Imagine for a minute that you are a man and were in a car accident. During this accident your dick was cut off.
Surgical techniques exist to reattach your dick but the law says you must now live as a woman. You find a doctor who is willing to reattach your penis, something that you don't have an infinite amount of time to do because it's rapidly becoming a non-viable penis.
Suddenly, some asshole goes on television and says that people who want to have their penises reattached are pedophiles and any doctor who helps them is a monster. They put your picture on the news, they tell everybody that you're trying to pretend you're not a woman now.
How much of that do you think you need to put up with before you get pretty fucking pissed off?
Who's insane here? Who's acting irrationally? Who is the aggressor?
I'm a bog standard model of human male but I think if I were put in that situation I'd be weighing the value of the life of a person who would deny me my own body.
How about you quit gaslighting me?
I don't necessarily have anything against sex reassignment surgery. It's a person's body, and if it's what medical experts think is best for their immediate mental wellbeing, then I think it's fair, although should be a last resort as it's permanent.
I am aware some people do get the sex reassignment surgery and it doesn't help them, turns out it was a different problem and they just persuaded themselves that it would be what would fix their problem (which occasionally is other traumas or underlying self hatred). I've also known people who've pulled out of transitioning due to them realising it wasn't the solution to their problem.
I've also seen people who've tried everything, tried to live a normal life, but the dysphoria also got them down.
I do think there should be research done into seeing if there is a cure or therapies for gender dysphoria, and use sex changes as a last resort. but right now, sex changes appear to be one of the most effective options if someone is truly experiencing dysphoria. But again, they should have everything else ruled out first (instead of the headcase that I referenced in the video above, sounds like she first self diagnosed online, started self treating, THEN went to her GP demanding further treatment for an illness they hadn't even been diagnosed with. That's like the time I had symptoms of anaemia and people were suggesting I skip the GP and get iron tablets, when it turned out to be a folate deficiency, because I went to a GP)
I'm aware of the arguments for and against the trans debate. I've been often changing my opinions on it, back and forth. But I hate the climate around it where you have to conform to a specific viewpoint or get labelled as a "bigot".
To both sides, what I'd say: If you believe me to be a monster for not 100% agreeing with you, then just conclude that I'm a monster already. I'm sick of playing these games, trying to change my opinion to appease others. I'd rather we would focus on supporting people and preserving life and what's best for them.
You've actually seen trans people, in person, threaten to burn down a surgery building? I doubt this.
As for people being suicidal, that's a known problem which happens as a result of being trans in a country that wants to deny them support, which is exactly why trans people are trying to get recognition in the first place. Denying that isn't exactly going to make their mental health any better, and they can't be blamed for that.
I didn't see it in person. But I did see it online.
So you claim to have seen evidence.
That trans people come as sane or insane as everyone else.
Not sure you are making any point at all.
I've also seen insane trans-critical people as well, with a severe lack of compassion.
I could repost my comment in a conservative group and get the same backlash but for calling people who are critical of transgenderism insane.
As I say. Every group of humanity comes in all levels of mental health.
Non of it makes any difference to this debate. Other then to normalise trans behaviour.
I thought the whole thing with gender dysphoria is that it wasn't normal?
Uncommon and abnormal are not the same thing.
Something can be rare and still normal.
Maybe we have our definitions in a twist. I wouldn't define "abnormal" to be negative or derogatory. Just "uncommon"
Uncommon things are entirely normal.
It is entirely normal for humans to develop different body forms and mental makeups.
It is the very process of long term evolution. And to be expected in any species.
I don't think a "normal" person exists
You give up the game when you call transgender an "ism"
I'm not good with terminology around these subjects
Its hard to take the trans community serious when they are just as bigoted as those they shit on. Extremely aggressive online moderation too in those communities. Theres gotta be a phrase for someone who acts like those they despise.
You can find unhinged crazies on both sides of just about any argument. It shouldn't really affect what you think of the subject matter at hand anyway tbh.
Makes it hard to figure out who to listen to tbh.
the only argument that matters: let people live their lives however they like as long as it doesn’t impact anyone else
trans rights fit this absolutely perfectly
That's fair, but the debate is now about impacting everyone else
but how are trans people impacting anyone else?
and if that were all that was happening, maybe, maybe it’d be reasonable… but trans people are being vilified for simply existing… the “debate” isn’t in good faith from 1 side to start with, so how are we meant to discuss real issues if the position of 1 side is extermination?
It's not about them existing. More about women's changing rooms, bathrooms, sports teams, etc. As well as punishing other people for not regarding trans women as women. It should be pretty clear cut that we shouldn't be exterminating trans people. I have not met anyone who held that opinion at all.
that’s what it’s turned into though… the UK supreme court just basically ruled that trans people don’t exist, and the US has banned gender markers on passports that don’t match your birth certificate, as well as all the horrible things happening in florida and texas
there’s a few things to unpack there…
first, if you believe trans people should be allowed to exist, then there are trans men that look wayyyyyy more masc than most men do so you’re forcing a bearded, muscly dude to use the women’s bathroom: not exactly what anyone wants if when presenting good faith arguments
second, what’s the issue this causes? lesbians and gay men already exist, and are allowed into the bathrooms of the gender they’re sexually attracted to and it doesn’t cause an issue
third, it’s an invented problem… trans people have been going into the bathrooms they feel like using for quite some time and have never caused issues until it started to become a hot topic, and the people causing issues were the people trying to yell at trans people and instead started yelling at women who “looked manly”. trans people don’t want to cause waves - they want to blend in…
as for men who identify as men going into women’s bathrooms to be pervs, well, that’s easy - we already have laws against that and they were working fine
sure, that one’s less clear cut when athletes haven’t taken steps to affirm their gender
but again it hasn’t really been a problem: men tend not to want to say they’re women, take estrogen, and have surgery on their cock and balls (a phalloplasty, which costs $20k-$50k) to beat women at sports (or to enter the women’s bathroom to be a perv)
and for kids sports - a category of humans who are not given surgery despite what some elements in the debate would have people believe - gender is irrelevant until puberty, and afaik the standard treatment for trans kids is puberty blockers, which are entirely reversible and essentially make the issue of male muscle bulk irrelevant too (again, these entirely reversible, safe medicines designed to give people more time to explore their gender identity with an adult brain have been banned in several places across the US - a move that is only about hurting people or ignorance and erasing trans existence)
The UK supreme court hasn't eroded any employment protections though (At least, I hope they haven't) , nevermind exterminating people like you're making it out to be. It's just policy change. I don't know why trans people have to use gendered bathrooms so bad. They could just use disabled ones which are basically provided 99% of the time and legally have to be, and crisis averted.
As with women's sports, some would argue that it's still an unfair advantage.
Gender markers on passports may make sense due to other countries having different policies on whether or not they recognise transgender people.
Listen to the real arguments and ignore the crazies?
Who have the real arguments and who are the crazies
Real arguments have substance, are self-consistent, and start from reasonable assumptions.