MeanwhileOnGrad
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post, rather than engaging in unrelated arguments.
Brigading — If you're here because this community was linked in another thread, please refrain from voting, commenting or manipulating the post in any way, this includes alt accounts. All votes are public, and if you are found to be brigading, you will be permanently banned.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
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the first sentence of unruffled says a lot, with or without context.
Anarchists have more in common from the fact that liberals support a capitalist framework alone. Tankies support socialism via weird means that don't get there in the end.
One wants to do something similar, one defends capitalism. One wants to stop fascists, one defends fascists.
disagree. in my opinion anarchists and liberals have kind of the same goal, freedom for the people, but with very different means. all the while for tankies that's not important at all, as we can see with how they cheer up on china and russia, surveillance states where your life can get destroyed for wrongthink.
Oh indeed, anarchists are more about freedom. It's why I detest tankies.
Does capitalism breed fascism?
Capitalism in decay turns into authoritarianism, as the state becomes part of the market system.
Authoritarianism is bad, by fascists, capitalists, and states pretending to be socialist/communist.
Edit: if this place doesn't like extremism, why am I being downvoted for saying extremism is a bad thing and we need to avoid it? Did I call out a method of it that you agree with, like .ml and .world?
Pretending is an interesting term. You think there's states pretending to be communist? Which ones?
China, the Soviet Union, Cuba. North Korea used to, until its Juche reform in like 2019 (?) completely gave up on it.
Communism requires no state. A state claiming ot be communist is an oxymoron.
so what's your take on tankies then?
A bunch of weirdos who think they know better by defending countries that don't care about them, that aren't socialist, and are just as power hungry as western nations, they just go about it a different way.
They support the same things just with a new coat of paint.
so what do you look for in this community? since you don't seem to enjoy it here
Tankies are weirdos. It's like a zoo.
But I can also use my time to call out when the zoo is doing a bad job of being a zoo.
how so?
"Tankies support socialism via fascism!"
Average red fash bootlicker.
Tankies are morons who have the right intentions but the wrong idea how to get it. They read Marx and saw Stalin and went "sure that seems good."
Liberals haven't read Marx, saw Stalin and went "anything he stood for was evil." And they're mostly right, but they have the wrong intentions with the new ways of avoiding it. All of which lead to Trump's iron grip.
"They read Marx and missed his point entirely, instead embracing fascism, therefore, they're better than people who haven't read Marx."
What exactly is the fucking difference, then, between tankies and liberals in this conception in terms of where it leads to?
"Tankies are better than liberals because they oppose capitalism" in this conception, which acknowledges that tankies are aiming for Stalin-esque bureaucratic control of the means of production, is no more coherent than "Strasserists are better than liberals because they oppose capitalism", or "Theocratic clientists are better than liberals because they oppose capitalism" - the latter, bizarrely enough, being something I have actually heard tankies on Lemmy espouse. Apparently the whole fascist conception of a "third way" was lost on them - or worse, appears appealing.
You could just as easily say "Liberals are morons who have the right intentions (democracy) but the wrong idea how to get it (capitalism)"
Tankies are dumbasses who simp for dictators, liberals have more intelligence but apply it incorrectly.
Honestly, fair.
Most liberals are liberal for lack of a better idea. Most liberals have not even been exposed to serious conceptions of socialism. If given the choice between fighting with liberals or fighting with tankies to see the point of a democratic and socialist society, liberals are by far the easier fight.
For that matter, if given the choice between fighting with a liberal regime, whose insufficient opposition to authoritarianism is likely to result in an eventual capitulation to fascism; or a tankie regime, which is and has its goal as fascism painted red; the former is much easier to fight and organize in.
Of those two choices - and the real world is not composed of such a binary - I would argue, albeit admittedly as a demsoc rather than an outright anarchist - that anarchists, whom I disagree with moderately at most, shouldn't have anything in common with fucking tankies, who are despicable. If 'opposition to capitalism' is a valid point of 'agreement' then, as I pointed out, literal fascist regimes are no less 'allies' in that conception in contrast to the liberal menace.
Worth mentioning that this is US-defaultism. Outside the US everyone has experienced socialised healthcare or other such social services
Welfare states originated with Otto von Bismarck in an effort to combat socialism, which is worker ownership of the means of production. For that matter, Americans are eminently familiar with social services.
Experiencing it is a much different thing than knowing it
That seems a little US-centric