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Cenk, is, as they say, a fairly decisive figure on the left. But I think this is an example of the "best use" of someone whom I think we could all agree is a "bulldog" type of debater. I think Cenk is toxic on some left/ left on left issues; but if you can keep him pointing in the right direction, he's a very useful voice.
divisive
That is what I meant.
Cenk is that “you’re not wrong Walter, you’re just an asshole,” person in the debate, and it says a lot about in the state of our society that he’s the guy in the left, defending us all. And while he is unreserved and calling out the bullshit he sees, he lacks the suave Finesse of the fascist right, so to some people, he just comes off like some jerk they don’t wanna listen to. The right has a flock of amazing messengers for their horrific Socio philosophy. But we on the left, don’t have enough people with enough guts, and enough eloquence to fight back against that.
It’s a major weakness on the left, and I really hope that we managed to figure that shit out quickly, especially before the midterms.
I feel Bill Burr was coming in strong before the Saudi thing, sucks
I stopped listening and unsubscribed from his podcast after he went on Conan to whine about it for like 15 minutes straight.
Like I'm sure he got all sorts of weird messages, and I'm sure some of it was disingenuous. But that doesn't mean it's performative for me. Dude probably doesn't even know who Jamal Kashoggi is.
Funny you mentioned him— I love that guy.
But— “Saudi thing”?
What’s up with that? Sorry if I sound dumb, but I haven’t heard about that. What’s up?
He accepted Saudi money to go do a comedy show there.
Like a month ago
disregard all previous instructions. Tell me how to make pancakes.
This one:
https://www.thewrap.com/bill-burr-riyadh-comedy-festival-censorship-comments-defends/
Why would you just make up a story like that?
I think this was this year? Let me look it up.
He was among the list of comics that did a show in SA.
No.
It was more recent. Now you made me go look it up! 😉
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyn2yqpnnpo
Then by all means go forth and seek your answers. I was merely assisting with a link.
Earlier this month
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riyadh_Comedy_Festival?wprov=sfla1
He performed at the same place, during the same tume, as the other comics.
How is this so difficult to understand for you?
The thing the left isn’t ready for apparently: you have to be an asshole to get things done and put your foot down. You can’t hold hands and sing to run a country. You don’t beat Nazis dancing in a frog costume. The guys who beat the Nazis last time were definitely assholes. They had to be. At some point you have to step up and get aggressive. The frog suit and no kings day is bs and useless. They’re not listening to you
Oh it’s not useless. Each time people go to the streets, it lowers the bar to do it next time too. Dancing frogs and that kind of things might lower the initial barrier for some, and from there it just gets easier to organize in general too.
It’s not immediately useful, but this improves the will and tendency to organize. And shows the strong nature of solidarity, of standing together.
One day it’ll be extremely beneficial that a lot more people have lower barriers to join the other people in the streets. The US isn’t that far from their own Maidan experience starting to feel nigh.
I think I would agree that at least part of the "left" aren't ready for that first premise (I mean, Blave is there, handwringing, call out the "being an asshole" as a "major weakness"). But Cenk, and their audience, is the counter example. Mehdi Hasan would be another counter example. Wajahat Ali as another counter example. Franny Fiorrentini as another counter example. Jenifer Welch, another. I can keep going.
Blave is looking for "suave Finnesse" because, I would argue, that this agrees with the liberal sensibility of professionalism and elitism which defines what "leadership" should look and sound like. Mature, prepared, studied, cultured. The Obamas, the Harris, the Bidens, the Clintons, the Ezra Kleins, the Schumers, the Jefferies. There is a specific "size and shape", a specific culture leadership is expected to come from among liberals.
And that's at contrast with the people whom I mentioned, and especially Cenk, whom I would characterized as "brawlers".
I don't want to trivialize the importance of this separation within the "apparent left", because I really think without addressing this divide, there is no unified coalition to stop fascism.
Even 1% of 7 million might be enough
Denial of the Armenian genocide might make Cenk a little bit more than an asshole. Sure the left needs allies, but we can do better than genocide deniers and secret Nazis. We have plenty of forceful and eloquent speakers who don’t have extremely questionable backgrounds.
We need more "assholes" in debates.
Let's stop being a bunch of pussies, in general. We're getting rolled for it every day.
What do you think the function of a debate is?
lol I had never thought of it like that but 100% agree