Since you’re probably using an intentionally ridiculous US estimate, I’ll use an intentionally ridiculous Russian estimate and say that seven million people died from the Great Depression. This Russian estimate uses the same intentionally ridiculous methodology of the U.S. one.

Put together, why isn’t this enough to declare that a genocide happened in the U.S.?

[–] paholg@lemm.ee -5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Nice whataboutism. But fuck it, I'll bite. A genocide has absolutely happened in the US, funny that you didn't hit on it.

Let's play a game. I'm going to call it, "can we agree on some basic facts?"

Stalin, through his policies and leadership, killed millions of Soviet citizens. True or false?

[–] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago (2 children)

funny that you didn’t hit on it.

Apologies for the confusing wording above. That’s because I was comparing two similar events to see if you would call it a genocide when the U.S. did it. If you did, I’d question your definition of genocide, but at least accept you’re applying it consistently.

I absolutely agree with you on that basic fact — the US has engaged in countless successful genocides against indigenous peoples.

Stalin, through his policies and leadership, killed millions of Soviet citizens.

False.

First of all, to attribute deaths solely to one individual (even to Hitler) denies anyone else responsible of their free will in doing so.

@ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml, would you mind holding this lib up to scrutiny since the one on Hexbear didn’t respond?

[–] ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago

I'm okay. Sorry.

[–] paholg@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

First of all, to attribute deaths solely to one individual (even to Hitler) denies anyone else responsible of their free will in doing so.

Fair, but this is just kind of a thing we do with language.

If we can't agree that millions of people in the USSR were killed, sent to gulags, and died of famine during Stalin's leadership, then I'm not sure there's anything worth discussing.

Similarly, the article you linked about 7 million US deaths in the great depression doesn't even take itself seriously. It's just trying to discredit counts for deaths in the Holodomor. I suspect you don't think that many people died as a result of the great depression, and, if you're not going to argue in good faith, then again I believe we are at an impasse.

Finally, there is no need for name-calling. While I do not consider "lib" nearly as much an insult as you likely intend it, I would still not categorize myself as such.

[–] brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

If we can't agree that millions of people in the USSR were killed, sent to gulags, and died of famine during Stalin's leadership

Can we agree that millions of people in the USA were killed, sent to gulags, and died of famine during FDR's leadership?

I suspect you don't think that many people died as a result of the great depression

And do you think that people died during the Holodomor?

[–] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Thanks for finishing where I couldn’t, comrade.

I would suggest we shouldn’t, even arguing with libs, refer to the Soviet famine that way, since it gives credence to Holocaust denial.

[–] brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

Good point, will avoid it in future.

[–] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago

if you’re not going to argue in good faith, then again I believe we are at an impasse.

Unfortunately, I'm suspecting that whatever your sources are similarly aren't arguing in good faith, but since you won't provide them, I can't know for sure.

While I do not consider “lib” nearly as much an insult as you likely intend it, I would still not categorize myself as such.

I don't intend it as an insult, but if you're actually a socialist, I apologize. I hope though if you were, that you might consider that the US has a clear bias against socialism, so it's pretty hard to consider it a trustworthy source on this matter at face value. There's not a neutral party, but we should at least consider what the other side is saying instead of just blindly accepting the US government narrative.

[–] brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

A genocide has absolutely happened in the US, funny that you didn't hit on it.

So you're denying genocide now.