cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/8181688
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this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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Anarchism
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Hexbear comes here to be the debate bros they try so hard to dunk on. They are dying looking for just one little morsel of dunk. Not a good showing, not a leftist unity moment lmao
The post exclusively attacks Hexbear's ideological "left unity" position so it's kinda fair game for people from that position to want to say something in its defence.
The people doing marxist sectarianism instead of defending left unity are being dummies though.
I mean you can't expect marxists to not critique anarchists? Left unity, yeah we can do that, but not arguing about everything with everyone? Nah.
Depends. There's a line it crosses from maintaining left unity while doing critique versus becoming sectarianism, and it's not useful when it is.
Yes to the first part. Although, I'll take this moment to say: hexbear's left unity could use a tune up
I'm just trying to talk about the latter behavior you described, which is kindof a symptom of what I mentioned
Yeah I agree.
I think the issue here is that since left unity only has enforcement onsite, some are baited into sectarian arguments offsite.
There's also the issue that this is specifically posing left-unity as a marxist trick.
this meme is explicitly anti-left unity, as is the OP
What could be more left unity than MLs and anarchists coming together to embarass liberals?
You can't be a fucker like OP and then complain about the lack of unity in response
I'm not complaining, I'm entertained.
And mostly using that language was me trying to reference the meme, try to bring it all full circle.
Would you say you're actually laughing?
I don't get the bit so I'm not gunna answer
Instead I'll ask a question
What?
You criticize Hexbear for dunks, but also criticize them for responding at length with citations.
parentiquote.txt
Death to America
Wait I didn't mean to criticize citations I love citations mb.
What did I say I'll edit it
What sort of behavior are you critiquing here?
Personally I think "debate bro" stuff is more arguing for the sake of arguing/bending over backwards to defend even trivial or weak points, maybe with a sprinkling of going back-and-forth long after it becomes clear you're at an impasse. I don't see a lot of that here anyway.
It involves a wide variety of behaviors, including the stuff you said, but primarily the first thing that comes to mind for me is the behaviour of trying to force/coerce people to engage in debates/discussions that they don't want to have or are otherwise unprepared to have, usually on the bad-faith preposition that anyone who is unwilling to participate in said debate/discussion must only be unwilling for the reason of being wrong.
I see your point, but I think this is seriously undermined when you have someone like OP who is willing to post all day about this, and occasionally willing to dip their toes into trying to raise real points, but then throws up their hands and says "hey it's just a ~~joke~~ meme" whenever they're in a tough spot.
Eh, IMO it was more like they attempted to engage in response, and then tapped out when it went over their head. Or maybe they just got busy IRL.
It doesn't seem good to me to try and rationalize shitty behavior just because of a reason someone might deserve it.
Also tho, if you wanna call them a lib and consider them officially dunked, you don't need a certain response from them for it to work, you can just decide that.
Looks like they've been posting pretty hard in this thread for at least 6-7 hours, often multiple paragraphs at a time.
It's not shitty behavior to make a political response to a political meme, or to point out when someone isn't having a good faith conversation.
Remember, I'm replying to 12 people here. Y'all are replying to just me.
Straight up misgendering half the posters lol
Please don't. I take that seriously and it is obtuse to pretend you don't know the phrase "debate bro". It was a cultural reference, and I have no intention at any point of misgendering anyone.
Use debate nerd instead in cases where you don't want to gender people.
Debate pervert is also great
"debatenerd" I'm picking this up! But in my defense, I was saying "debate me bro", as in, someone who says "debate me, bro"
So, there is this cool thing you can do called making memes gender neutral instead of calling trans women bros.
Since you take misgendering extremely seriously, I thought you should know about this neat trick.
This is a meme I am referencing after seeing it on hexbear. Specifically imitating their language to make a point. Maybe we should talk to them about it too. I obviously hadn't considered the full implications, and will not use that phrase anymore, for sure.
You may also have seen "debatelord"
I don't remember seeing that specifically, I might have, but I did specifically see the other several times.
broooo come on I thought we were cool
I'm not trying to make enemies, or say hexbear is as bad as people make it out to be
This thread is just no good
I mean communists are not well known for agreeing on things and not arguing about stuff.
I'm not saying I think this is the end of leftism as we know it or anything. I'm just appreciating the bar fight I guess.
It hasn't been a friendly thread.
If OP had the tiniest scrap of good faith in their being, things would have gone differently
I mean they just shared a meme from an instance you aren't federated with and quickly had like 20 people trying to demand complex conversations about history with them.
A lot of the complaints directed at them would be better served directed at whoever made the meme.
Maybe don't share history memes you don't even remotely understand that vilify people whose perspective you don't remotely understand? Dude has received some real softball questions and whiffed.
But OP doesn't give a shit, his ideology is "Dae tabkies bad" and the actual historical claims are secondary.
This is literally their instance IMO they don't really owe anyone anything here.
Bad takes are allowed within the privacy of one's own home.
If someone writes as many replies (and as long of replies) as OP, they don't get to pull the "I don't owe you an explanation" card. They've already put in the time; writing 10,000 words and refusing to address hard questions in any of them just means you don't have good answers.
I like the instance despite not being on it and have no particular disagreement with these people, but I was was forced to see a fedpost and their defenders here. This is neither his home nor private.
edit: He's the mod lol.
I was trying to be poetic about saying "they are the admin and they are being a good sport letting everyone come in this thread and yell at them"
It isn't a home, but it is theirs. They could just be deleting everything and banning everyone.
"Look, it's his instance, he can do blood libel if he wants"
I don't give a shit what he can do, the question is what he should do. Spouting heinous lies uncritically is bad in any social setting.
They're starving, man